Beyond the 100th Episode: Chisme, Creativity & Redefining Success in the Algorithm Era Ft. She's Ryan and Mike Brown

Welcome back to the 100th episode of the Hella Chisme Podcast. 

Celebrating 100 episodes of the Hella Chisme Podcast, this milestone conversation goes beyond the highlight reel to unpack the real journey behind building something meaningful in the algorithm era. 

Host Dana sits down with creative powerhouses She's Ryan know for her GAG (Get a Grip) content and project and Mike Brown from The Art of Letting Go. We have a unfiltered, deeply honest conversation about what it truly takes to sustain creativity, build a platform, and redefine success on your own terms. From burnout and imposter syndrome to navigating the pressures of social media and monetizing your craft, this episode dives into the realities that most creators don’t talk about.

Together, they explore the tension between passion and survival, the myth of the “starving artist,” and the importance of mindset, boundaries, and community in creative work. They also break down how comparison culture, the algorithm, and visibility pressures impact creators and how to push through without losing yourself in the process.

This episode is a reminder that success isn’t just about numbers or virality, it’s about consistency, alignment, and the courage to keep showing up even when things feel uncertain.

Whether you’re a creative, entrepreneur, or someone trying to build something meaningful, this conversation will challenge how you define success and inspire you to keep going.

LINK: https://linktr.ee/hellachismepodcast

Follow She's Ryan:

IG: https://instagram.com/shesRYAN

TikTok: https://Tiktok.com/shesRYAN

Youtube: https://Youtube.com/@RYANVIBES

Follow Mike Brown:

https://linktr.ee/theartoflettinggo

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/theartoflettinggopodcast/

The Art of Letting Go

Topics to include: 

podcast growth, creative entrepreneurship, success mindset, algorithm era, content creation strategy, burnout in creatives, imposter syndrome, creative journey, social media pressure, building a brand, podcasting tips, monetizing creativity, creative discipline, authenticity online, mental health for creatives, Black queer creatives, visibility and branding, consistency in content, creative burnout recovery, redefining success

Transcript

Success Is Showing Up

SPEAKER_03 0:00

If there's anything I hope you take away from today, it's this. Success isn't one thing. It's not just numbers, it's not just visibility, and it's definitely not perfection. It's showing up even when you're tired, even when you're unsure, even when it's not clear how it's going to come together. It's choosing to keep going. A hundred episodes later, I can honestly say this journey has been messy, uncertain, and at times overwhelming. But it's also been one of the most meaningful things I've ever built. And I wouldn't be here without the people that was on this slide with me today, that continues to listen to the show, that even continues to show up and comment and follow on all my social media platforms. And the community that continues to grow with me every single day. So thank you. Thank you for the support, the conversations, and for allowing this space to exist. And if you're building something on your own right now, whether it's big or small, just know you're already closer than you think. So keep showing up, keep creating, and most importantly, stay true to yourself. Alright, y'all. Quick pause. If you've been watching, listening, vibing, and you're not subscribed yet, that suspicious behavior is given sus. Go ahead and subscribe to the Hella Cheese May Podcast on YouTube. That's at HellaChees May Podcast. Follow us on Instagram at HellaCheesMade Pod. And yes, we're on TikTok too. You can follow us at Hella Cheese May. And to be my professional gym scrolls, if you scroll for 52 minutes straight but can't hit follow, be serious. The algorithm is already fighting us. Don't join it. Leave a comment on this episode, tell us what you think, drop your favorite moment, argue with me respectfully. The comments help more than you know. And wherever you're listening, whether that's Apple, Spotify, wherever, make sure you subscribe there too. Don't just consume the cheese map. Participate in a girlfriend. Help us beat the algorithm before it decides we don't exist. Subscribe, follow, comment, share, girl. You know, being a part of this community, just to let you know, it's fun over here because we're building something and we're building something beautiful. Make sure to be a part. Oh my gosh, we made it, we here. Round of applause. I'm so excited uh to be back here with y'all live today. Um, I have a full-on show ready and set up for today, but you know, I am just excited to be here celebrating 100 episodes, to have uh made it to 100 episodes, and I'm happy to be doing it here uh with y'all watching um this live. Um so I mean, celebrating 100 episodes, uh, and if you know at the beginning of uh towards the middle of last year, last summer, um I a lot had changed uh with the Hello Cheese Me podcast. Uh we had, you know, made some shifts, done some, you know, a little shuffling drive and got some things moved around. Um, but um I came back. I went on a vacation, uh, I um, you know, took some time for myself, uh, had some conversations with myself and tried to figure out what the hell I was gonna do with this show. Um at the time it was about episode 83, episode 84, and um then, you know, I came back and decided to continue to keep moving things forward after, you know, I had myself a little reset and some therapy. Because everybody need a little therapy chat. Um, so I did that, and um, we came back and I'm happy to be back. And I uh made some changes, uh, started to, you know, get some real serious understanding about direction for the Hello Cheese May podcast, where I wanted to go, uh, what I wanted to do with it. And I am excited to um to have been able to make it to 100 episodes. That was one of the big goals. If you know anything about podcasting, or if you've been doing it for some time, you know they say that most your average podcasts don't make it past 100 episodes. Um so I am happy to have made it, and we definitely gonna make it past that. We're gonna be having the same conversation again when we get it to four or 500 episodes. So I'm excited uh to see uh where we go and how we grow from here. And I want to thank if you are watching, listening later. Uh, thank you so much for uh sticking with us. Um and thank you for being here today. Um so with that, uh we have, like I mentioned, I have a full-on episode planned out for today. Uh I have two wonderful guests. Um my first guest, Ryan, who is a visibility coach and brand strategist with over 15 years in entertainment, in the entertainment industry, uh, who helps creatives build authentic brands by navigating mental health and digital culture. Uh, a working um artist, turned also certified life coach. Uh, and she now helps creatives build authentic personal brands by building art, by blending art, psychology, and digital strategy. And as a founder of Get a Grip, which is also known as GAG, which is where I was like hooked, um, this movement, and uh, she also hosts uh her own podcast show called Lion Ryan, um, where her work focuses on helping artists overcome burnout and posture syndrome and the pressures of social media so they can help, so they can show up with uh clarity, confidence, and sustainability. And of course, my other guest you've seen here before, uh, and has also has also been a huge role uh in helping this podcast move forward in the last two years, Mike Brown. Um he is also a black queer creative, uh podcast producer and storyteller whose work spans studio to audio studio music and visual arts. Uh, he is the creator of The Art of Letting Go, a platform centered around vulnerability, healing, and honest conversation. And he is an award-winning producer and a 2023 Air New Voices alum. Uh, Mike has helped impact and shape uh podcast projects and was named one of uh 2025 MBJC 100 emerging LGBTQ leaders across everything he creates, he works, his work is rooted in connection, reflection, and making people feel seen and understood. Together, both of uh these creators have um their work empowers creatives to show up fully behind meaningful platforms and create with both purpose and sustainability. Without further ado, I want to welcome both uh Mike and Ryan to the show. Uh please welcome, welcome to the Hello Cheese Me podcast. Y'all like my cheese me hand claps?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

I love it. Hey, uh hello cheese cheese may. Uh guess what? So I can't, I I love that intro. It was amazing. Uh I can't see anyone.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Uh you can't see anyone, but they can see you. We can see they in the comments. And uh I have a comment box over here. Uh do you see a comment box on your end?

SPEAKER_00 10:44

A comment box? No, but it's okay. Don't worry, don't worry about it. Uh I just won't see I just won't see y'all during the whole interview. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

You can't see us?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

I cannot see Oh gosh, okay. I can only see the like and subscribe uh thing that you put out.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Oh Lord, okay. So let's go back to Media Asset. Uh if you on your computer screen, we're gonna get in trouble with this in real time.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

It's all good. You know, this happens. Tech technology happens. So I'm gonna I'm gonna leave and see what happens if I just leave and come back. I've done that already while you were speaking, but I'm gonna try again.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Okay, sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Anyway, Mike, hi, how are you doing? How are you feeling? Technology is doing effective today. You're on mute, friend.

SPEAKER_05 11:45

Look, we all we all in here. Um, you know, it's it's a part of the game, technology, and I love that people get to see it in real time to see like as we build and as we grow, just you know, the process um to even be bold enough to put ourselves out there. But to go back to your question, um, I'm doing good. I'm at my parents' house, as you can see, um, blinds, wallpaper, you know, a little old school.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

I mean, I hear you. Ryan, can you see us now? No, but it's okay. Uh, apparently everyone, everyone else can we recommend you stay in the studio until all recordings have uploaded. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Okay.

unknown 12:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

Um, technology is kicking our ass today. And I love that. I I love it. Anyway, I hear you on the um on that front. It's, you know, I don't know if it's Mercury retrograde, if that's what's happening. Um definitely things are happening, and definitely uh this is not going as planned, but I'm not gonna let it shake me and I'm not gonna let it bother me.

SPEAKER_05 13:00

Not at all. We're gonna get through this. Mercury is in right micro braids, but you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Yes. Anyway, how is your Friday going uh so far? What you been up to? What's been going on?

SPEAKER_05 13:12

You know, I have I had a little work earlier today, and I I ended my day early. I ended my day at like two, because it's Friday. Um my sister, she went to Whole Foods, she's making oysters for dinner tonight. Um, it's crawfish season, so I'm gonna have some crawfish. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm looking forward to to dinner plans this evening. But I wanted to ask you, how are you doing? How do you feel um hitting 100 episodes? Um congratulations, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Thank you, thank you. I feel I feel good. Uh, I think you know what it boils down to for me is that I'm happy to have gotten to this space and happy to have made it here. Um, I think that when initially I when um I started podcasting, uh, I was like, okay, we just gonna see, we're gonna see how this goes. We're gonna see how this moves, we're gonna uh keep rocking out. But um, and I had already read like you know, statistics about uh podcasters and shows not making it past 100 episodes. So, you know, I was just like, okay, well, we just gonna see. Um, and as you know, I started as doing the show every week. I had an episode come out every week with my co-host Stephanie. And then from there, um as things changed, as things grew, as we got to like 60 and 70, I was like, oh my God, okay. So, you know, if we stick to it, we can do this. But you also you just start to understand how much work it is, right? You start to realize how um how you have to keep your audience engaged and how much it takes to make sure to continue to create content. Uh really with getting people to watch it.

SPEAKER_05 15:18

Yeah, and it's it's funny you say like most podcasts don't make it to a hundred episodes, most don't even make it past seven episodes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Um, which you know, that's how sometimes the cookie crumbles. Um, why are you talking about me like that?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Can y'all hear me? Yes, that's that's me. Why y'all talking about me like that? I'm right here.

SPEAKER_05 15:44

Not at all. You you know, you know, you got a million creative things going on. A podcast is just one of 30, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

And it is welcome back, and thank you for rocking out with you know the technical issues. Yeah, um, you know, what I was just asking, Mike, I was like, is it my pre-retrograde? Because this has been all day. I just want y'all to know this has been all day, all week. Um, and we just gonna power through as much as we can. But Ryan, how are you doing? How what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I feel amazing. Uh I I'm doing really well. I feel great. Happy Friday, y'all. I had to check my phone just now. Like, is it Friday? You know, I feel amazing. Um, everything is flow, everything is good. Even when you have technical difficulties, it's all gonna work out anyway, you know? Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

It works out. I was telling my I was telling mic earlier, I'm trying something new. So I don't know how the sound, how good the sound sounds, but I have an extra mic over here. It's kind of like, you know, my little three, my three mic, I'll call it, because it's up here at the top. Like, we're gonna try it. Why not? I have all these mics lying around here. I might as well do something to um to utilize them or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

The sound sounds, I mean, it sounds good.

SPEAKER_05 17:08

Ryan, I I gotta ask though, is your mic custom? Because I've never seen that color before.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Well, you know anything about me. It's custom, baby. This is a custom sure mic, hi.

SPEAKER_05 17:19

That's fire. That's fire.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

I I I had to get the colors for high vibrational. Every time I see it, I feel like working, right? Considering I'm I'm not on my hundredth episode.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

You know what, but you are out here doing the things, huh? Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Is that so? I have a question actually, now that you said that, is it is there something to be said about colors that you choose when you pick like a workspace or something like that? Because I don't know if you know, but I have been obsessed with like bright green teals and all of it, as you can see. Um, I have like a bright green phone case, but do you think it's connected to like being you need to make sure you have a space that's excited or things that you're excited about using that creates like excitement to do the things that you do?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Absolutely. I I have to make fun out of everything, okay? Because adulting is basically 100% work, and then you figure out how to have fun in between work. So I'm gonna go ahead and do things that make me happy. I mean tiny little stupid things that make me really, really happy. Like, oh, I don't have to get a black shirt, Mike. I can make a pink and green, a little bit orange, you know what I mean? Or like the colors that coincide with my branding. So I I changed my colors for this kind of last three months to like chartreuse and bright green because I feel like that's where my mood is headed. Like I am bringing in abundance. Hello, sprinkle, sprinkle. I'm I'm bringing in um things that feel bright and exciting to me as opposed to trying to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. So for me, every single thing is intentional. My workspace is intentional, what I wear, how I mix my tea in the morning. Like I'm not everything, everything.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

I love that. Yeah. What about you, Mike? Do you feel like how do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_05 19:19

I do. Um, I feel like I feel like I choose colors kind of based on my mood. I feel like I'm always somewhere in the range of some type of purple. I don't know why it speaks to me so loud, but um, that's always been a color I've just been drawn to. But I will say, like lately, as I'm so I'm turning 40 this year, and uh I've been drawn to more. Thank you. I appreciate that. Been drawn to more like browns and more like just earth tones for some reason. So I'm I'm I guess I'm coming into it calm.

Holding A Job While Creating

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I um, you know, I green over the last eight years has been very heavy into workspaces, anything that I'm creating. Uh, and I don't know why, but I've not strayed away from it. If for whatever reason, I think if it if it shifts and I'm just like, oh no, I I think I'm changing my color, then I it will happen. But it's been pretty consistent with the greens and the bright greens, and I love it. Uh it might be a little bit of an obsession, but anyway, I'm so happy to have you both here today. Um, I have a um I have a full-on plan for this uh show today, so I'm very excited. And uh the way I wanted to kick this off really was I was scrolling on Instagram yesterday. And I have in my my outline here that Ryan, you had posted this clip, but then when I went back to make sure, because I'm I in my wannabe journalistic head, I'm like, you have to fact find, you have to make sure that's what you put in there at facts. I was like, it wasn't there anymore. So I was like, well, did I make the that she posted this? And it was that somebody else? But anyway, it was a person going around and they were asking the crew, who uh what's your job and what do you do? And they were saying, Oh, today I'm a set manager, but my nine to five, one of the people were like, Oh, I sell merch on eBay. And you know, that's how I make all my money, my nine to five money. And to me, I was like, oh, this will be a perfect way to start this conversation off because as creatives, as people who need money to live, we all choose different directions in what we call our nine to five, or what we call um the way we need to make money to get them bills paid every month because they're not gonna stop. Right. Um, and so you know, for me, I yes, I'm a creative. I do. I'm a podcaster. I design clothes. I love to be in the art world. I love to make art and I love to do anything DIY. But my actual job is that I work in HR. I'm a culture analyst at a public agency. And, you know, I work in program management with supporting my staff every day and make sure we're building culture. So I thought the best way for us to kick off this conversation is asking you both, you know, how do you, when thinking about the nine to five or what you got to do to make the money, and then also being able to create on the side of that, what does that look like for you, being able to hold space for two versions of yourself, whether it's that nine to five or being in that creative space?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

You go, Mike.

SPEAKER_05 22:53

I appreciate that. Um, you know, I it's funny, I don't fully feel in the nine and five space right now. And I only say that because when I was nine to five, and it was like when I was teaching, when I was doing retail, when I was working at Starbucks, and like being fully immersed in just everything that I do creatively. Like, I mean, my main work is creative executive podcast production, and that's a long title, but the creative is so important to that because I'm not just taking what somebody is telling me and doing it, like I'm contributing creatively. So, you know, that's my that's like my my nine to five. That's my everyday work, but also, you know, I'm consulting on other shows, I'm doing editing for podcast clips, I'm making music, um on and off selling merch, on and off. Like I think as a creative, as an entrepreneur, as a hustler, like you just have to have so many different um outlets to and and just sources of income. So I think for me, like I feel so immersed in it that I think my my line is now blurred and I don't even know if it exists anymore to do the two.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

That's right. That's right. I feel like I feel like I'm an artist for artists, so I'm always an artist first, right? And the reason why I even after going to art school, graduating, staying in the field of music, entertainment, visual arts, creative direction, fashion, film, whatever, whatever I'm doing at the time. And then I magically pivot into mental health. I'm in the mental health space specifically for creative entrepreneurs and artists. I see the difference between art brain and logic brain a lot, right? So, me being a life coach, I'm getting, I'm getting um, Ryan, I don't feel fulfilled because I do have to get up and I do have to go to this nine to five every day and I hate it, and that's not how it works. And why can't I be like this person that I'm looking at on the internet? Which is fake. Stop. Stop stop that right there. Because what you're doing is comparing yourself to things that are people's highlight reels. Like artists are very sensitive. So when we see, when we see as an artist in my brain, wow, this person is is living and fulfilling their dreams and they can actually eat off of their art, you think that you're failing somewhat because you're not doing that. But I always remind people that if you how can you create the art that you love so much without money? Now, that like let's let's take it back into our logic brain. Let's strip down all the fun shit that you think being an artist is, and let's and let's take it back there. This is how I stay full. I remember to remind myself almost daily like I cannot create without a roof over my head, I cannot eat or sustain my my wellness and my livelihood without food. I need money for that. I cannot have a life where I can navigate, take play, go places, take Ubers or whatever I gotta do. I can't make art without money. So when I remind myself of it's okay that I still have to do jobs that I don't always want to do, like it's gonna be all right, y'all. You have to shift your mindset when it comes to anything that you do outside of your creative work. If you don't like the job that you're currently at and it's it's it's hurting you so bad that you can no longer create the same way you got that job, you can get another one. And and and it's gonna be okay. So I'm no longer dragging my feet or creating or doing work through gritted teeth because I don't want to, and it's not my creative passion. My creative passion is financial freedom and doing art. That's my passion. So I'm gonna be grateful for the work that I have to do, and then I'm going to be tired doing my craft sometimes. I'm gonna be exhausted, and that's okay. So once you find that logic, which is well, hey, do I want to be couch hopping and and and I don't have a place to stay right now? Do I want to be eating oodles and noodles every day instead of like a good, healthy meal so my brain functions correctly so that I can do my art? Or do I want to just be a starving artist? Because that shit has played out and I'm not into I'm not into it. I'm not into it. And that's where we be teaching that gag. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 27:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey Ryan, some it's a a word that you said that stood out to me was mindset. And um, I think for me, that's been something that has been helpful for me in even getting to this point because I think so much as creatives were taught like we're supposed to do this for free and do it for the love, which is true, but also you have these skills that you can you can profit off of. And I think for me, there's this balance between like, you know, there are some things that like podcasting, for example. I love podcasting, but also I know this is how I can pay my bills. I'm gonna pay my bills off of it, but music is kind of my free space, painting is kind of my free space, so it's like I don't have to be so in my head of like, I gotta make money off of this because I got this space, I got this creative thing that I'm able to profit off of. When these do, they do. But um, yeah, I think sometimes as creatives, there's so much pressure on one thing to make you all your money be like just your all-encompassing thing. And I really feel like when when we start shifting our mindsets to see ourselves as entrepreneurs and start seeing ourselves as not just, you know, music producer, podcaster, this, when you see yourself as a full creative, like you literally can create anything, even a business.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yes, uh yeah, a business is an artistry. And if you can master both, if you can be okay with taking physical responsibility for your livelihood, and then also be a creative, that's the sweet spot. And I was really lucky to have found that when I did, because we we get engulfed in, I know everything shouldn't be about money, but when at what point do you start saying, Hey, I charge for that? That's that's okay, it's okay. It's okay to charge. Like pay transparency is a normal thing, and that is part of being a creative, that's part of being an artist. Say it, and the worst thing that they can say is, I ain't got it.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

And we're and that's it. Yeah, it's it's so interesting. Uh, we're we're talking about mindset, and I've shared on the show before that when I first started designing on my own as a fashion designer, it was when I was getting unemployment checks because I had just gotten let go from my job and had just made a decision that I was going to go design for myself and I was gonna start a brand. And um, and then a couple of months later, I finally read when um Alexander McQueen had uh had died. I read his story and learned that he essentially started his brand doing the same thing.

unknown 30:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

And you know, you think about you just think about um so many people find their path in in different directions, and you start to find the similarities in how everybody has come to the space that they're in now today, or where they continue to push themselves. And it's sometimes unconventional, sometimes they have that that money, sometimes they have it, or sometimes, or like you like you write. I get home from work and I am tired putting together these these outlines, putting together, you know, these episodes. And but at the end of the day, I walk into work every day and I'm like, but you know what? That check, that$600 is about to go towards that mic that you won't, and you about to add it.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

And I I tell people all the time, let the job be your let the job be your funder, you know what I mean? Like it's it's nothing wrong with having a job. Like, I I find like so many people like like create, but then also in shame or working. It's like, nah, like if it's if it's supporting your creativity, now I think the thing that some people do is get lost in the work and uh forget about the creativity. So it's like just always reminding yourself that you know this is here, but this is this is just as valuable.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Right on. Yeah.

Pricing Your Work With Confidence

SPEAKER_03 31:54

So I oh go ahead. Where are you gonna uh so I know that um we've we've talked about uh the two different versions and uh making those decisions and um how you get down the path that you want to be on. And Mike, you mentioned about the lines being blurred. I want to kind of ask like, at what point do you feel like those lines start to become blurred where you're just like, this is what I'm doing? And everything that I do, we are now going to try and weave into this main goal, this main focus.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

That's a great question. Um, and I say that because for me, I know like 2024, I kind of hit like a I don't know if I call it a rock bottom. Maybe it was a rock bottom, but I was in the place I had just moved to the East Coast. I didn't have a job, I didn't have work coming in. So I was looking for work, both in what I was doing as far as podcasting, but also looking for jobs. And I'm applying for like five, six jobs a day, getting denied every day. And uh I think my final straw was I applied to the post office knowing I didn't want to work at the post office. And uh I asked myself, like, what are you doing? And in the in that moment, I knew that I had to shift my mindset. I knew something had to change, but also knew that what I was manifesting was bigger than you know what I was what was at the surface. Like getting a job, doing all this stuff was easy. And I remember I told my therapist, I was just like, I'm struggling getting a job. And he was like, But you said that you don't want a job. So, you know, what are you gonna do about that? And um, yeah, it forced me to start putting myself out there. Like, I used to feel those same fears that most creators feel of like, oh, am I pricing too high? Am I doing this? Am I doing that? And my mentor, shout out to TK. Um, she told me, she said, How many Ubers do you want to take? How many times do you want to go out to eat? How many trips do you want to take in a year? That's how you should be pricing yourself. And it showed me, like, oh shit, I'm kind of pricing myself a little low. And once you start pricing yourself higher, you start hitting those, like, okay, this is what I'm a little scared to throw this price out there, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. And when you get it and you start doing the work, it's like, oh, I could I could ask for this every time. I could ask for my worth every time. And you start learning more of your value. So I think um, I don't know if that's answering your question. I know I'm kind of kind of just going off because I'm really passionate about that because there's so many times I've doubted myself, and just I remember I was like lowballing myself at times, and people telling me, like, oh, the price is too high, and now like my price is like double what I was charging at that time, and it's just like I'm not going backwards. And I remind myself every time like just put your number out there, and whatever is supposed to come to you will come to you.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

If they say no, they say that's it. It rewired, it definitely rewires you when you um start doing things that you are afraid to do, right? Like it rewires your entire like everything. You you you magically doubled your price out of nowhere, and then you're like, wait, what? You said yes, let me try that again, and then you just it keeps rolling, it never stops. That's and that's law. That's that goes for every single thing. That is universal law. Let me do this right now and see if I if I get better, and it and things just get better. It's like the gym, you know? Yeah, it's like the gym. I'm not there, but you know, I go.

SPEAKER_05 35:55

And and I will say, and I'm and I'm sure y'all probably can relate, like in the past, of like taking those jobs out of scarcity and like feeling like one foot in this job and one foot in the creative. And that used to be a driving force for me in my creativity of like, I gotta, I gotta work this job and I'm gonna create so hard that I'm gonna get out of this job. And it was so much of a cycle that I was just like, nah, I should be able to have and find work that is fulfilling for me. And now that I'm doing so much fulfilling work, I'm like, fuck, like my mind is just open to create more and create in other spaces. And like, yeah, I I I hope that every creative gets to experience this at some point in their lifetime.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Me too. That's why I'm just doing the good work. That's it. You know, saying I be telling y'all every day, better charge.

Rock Bottom And Finding The Sweet Spot

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Yeah. Um, how about you, Ryan? What about what about yourself? Where at what point did you start it to just be like, you know, this is the main goal? We're about to try and we're gonna do and put it all together. And we're, but this is the target. This is where I'm headed, and this is how I'm gonna do what I gotta do to get there.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Yeah. The only reason that I'm this confident with everything is because I've been through everything. So I'm talking like art school graduate with the dream, one of the best art schools in the United States. Graduate, hella debt, become unhoused straight up, home, couch hopping. Did that don't want to go there again, right? So did I mean I can only speak to where I've been, which is everywhere as a creative. I've done everything, I've seen a lot of money really quickly, a lot of life-changing money, and I've also had no bank account. I'm talking about starting from scratch. No bank account, no birth certificate, no social security guard. Start from scratch because I got so warped into a hole of chasing a creative dream. So I had to rework myself from rock bottom. That is rock bottom. No house, no birth certificate, no ID, no, no, you don't have a foot footprint. Okay. Because I was chasing, trying to do one thing so bad that I lost myself. I lost everything. I lost paying bills, credit, financial literacy, um, physical responsibility, eating, eating. I went so far left that I forgot to do the responsible thing. So for me, I'd say I I did both I did both things. After I got myself back on my feet, I did all the jobs that I didn't want to do. So I've worked everywhere from retail, bartending, hospitality, the service industry, dominatrix work, strip. We ain't gonna talk about that. Um, you know, I've done everything that you can do. I've done everything kind of work. I'm gonna just say that, okay? And I've done that. And then I did the big thing, you know. Once you get back on your feet and you're like, you know what? Fuck this. I'm gonna quit because I'm gonna be a creative. Did that bad news, okay? Yeah, yeah. All right, bad idea. And then I found my sweet spot. I went and became um a certified um, I'm a licensed tattoo artist. So yeah, I started doing I got popular in that space, and I started doing a bunch of tattoos and working around tattoo shops in New York City, and I gained popularity in that way. Now I'm still I'm still a tattoo, so that's my day job from that video you watched. That's that's my day job. I'll take about two clients a week, still to this day, to this day. Okay. And um, I've been doing these tattoo jobs so that I can balance my creative work, which is I work in production, music, and film, and I can also do my tattoo work, and nobody gotta know my business. I take my clients, referral only. It's not like strangers are coming into my home, and they leave, and my bills are paid. I tap into all of my creative after, whether I'm tired or not. I don't believe in the hustle culture. So if I'm tired, I'm going to sleep. That's a whole nother conversation.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

Oh no, we're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Right. Because I do not subscribe. I do not subscribe. I just told y'all what I've been through. I'm not going back. I can do I can do the best things with myself, my body, my talents, and my skill when I sleep. So I'm going to do my day job, even if I don't feel like taking clients, I will take them because I budgeted out my rent, I budgeted out my food, I budgeted out these things that I have to pay, and then I can get crazy with my creative work. And if somebody does say, hey, Ryan, we don't have that in the budget this month, that's okay, because I worked. I worked this month. Okay. So yeah, I'm I'm right, that's where I'm at. I've seen rock bottom, I've seen middle bottom, I've seen high top, I've seen everything. And that's just where I am. I've I just believe in not taking yourself so seriously where you think your job is going to overcome who you are as a creative individual. Right. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_05 41:33

Yeah, I got a question for both of y'all because uh as we're talking, um, realizing like just hearing your journey, Ryan. Like, I definitely understand that like I got this idea, this is how it's supposed to go. And it's almost like when you begin like your creative journey, um, you buy into this idea of how things are supposed to be. And I feel like we're in that phase of like all of us are in that phase of um defining the journey for ourselves, you know. But I'm curious, like, where do you think that idea comes from? Like it, and I know for sure in music, because I started out in music, and that whole like gotta make music depressed or gotta struggle, and like where does that come from?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

You want to answer that first?

SPEAKER_03 42:21

I was gonna say, you know what? Um, you know, I watch a lot of TV, I watch a lot of movies, and um I think you know, uh, I last year I did um a lot of writing about Bell Hooks, and Belle Hooks has a book where she talks about how media and the social media and the media that we consume before even social media was a thing, how it plays a vital role in how we live our lives and how what we think life looks like. And I definitely think you know that's a true statement. TV and media tells you something, uh, and then you think that's supposed to be a thing. But also I think I believe my for me, my parents were definitely a big part of at a certain age you got to do this, at a specific age you need to be doing that, at this age you need to be doing this, and then at year 35 of working it's time to retire. And you know, I'm still looking for my 35-year job of retirement because when I tell you, honey, um for my people that are watching that work with me, I don't know that it's the one that you know. I am, I know you were talking about uh how you applied for the post office. I'm I think I've shared that the post office is where I worked when I moved to San Diego. When I moved from the Bay Area to San Diego, I worked for the post office and I was for sure like, okay, I might, you know, I can see how a postal carrier or mail carrier will be here for. 15, 20 years because it's just consistent. And every year you're getting an increase. And by the time you get to that three-year mark, you're permanent. And at that three-year permanent mark, at the time, if you made it to$30 an hour, you're good. But now it's pretty almost double that. So I get it, right? But um I do believe that a portion of that is what we see, and then the people who raise us on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Society's gonna tell you that uh there's only one way to success. And society will drill in your brain and condition you that if you make music, you have to be Beyoncé. If you do sports, you have to be LeBron James. If you do fashion, you have to be Rick Owens, et cetera, et cetera. Like society will drill it into your brain that the only way to be successful is to be some rich, famous, super pop star. And when you grow up, you kind of choose two paths. It's one of two paths. And I chose the other one. Like, hell no, that ain't it. I I there's no way. I don't even want Beyonce's responsibility. God bless her. All right. I don't want that. I don't want, I don't want that. And you, you, you know, also, like you said, upbringing. Like, I I guess I didn't have like anybody that even did anything in the art industry in my entire family, both sides, like lineage. It just there's no one successful from art.

unknown 45:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

So I didn't I didn't see it, but also I had such supportive parents that they were like, Well, you like art, go to art school. That was a bad idea. I mean, I think that was a bad call. That was a bad call for me personally. I'm not a school person, so I did not absorb the same things that my peers did in college. I don't remember college.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

If you know what I mean, you get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Some people are meant for different alternative paths, but same success. And I just feel like if I had the opportunity to get a year off and work, learn about debt and credit and financial literacy, budgeting. Yes, if I had learned straight out of high school as opposed to being pushed into college, I would have been in a different space now. All so society will tell us like college, marriage, kids, rich.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

I ain't got none of that. You know what I'm saying? So so you know, I'm rich in many different ways, very rich, but but not from societal standpoint. Is that is is does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, 100%. I mean, at 25, I just knew I would have kids. I knew I was gonna be married, I knew I was gonna have my first house, I knew I was gonna have owned like my favorite car, child, none of that. I didn't get married until I was almost 30. See, I uh uh the house that I uh now live in and own is with my husband. Yeah, and you know, we almost 36. And I didn't buy my first car until I was almost 30. Yeah, you know, I and I agree, it's just like we were taught something, we see things, and it it we just find out and figure out through life that everything that we thought was supposed to be the thing definitely is not what it's gonna be at all.

SPEAKER_05 47:41

Yeah, I think the thing that corrupted my mind as a young person was uh probably Kanye and Pharrell, if I'm being honest. I remember Kanye saying five beats a day for three summers, and I'm trying to make five beats while also having a job. Okay, that's not possible. And you know, there's a quote that Pharrell said in a magazine, and it stood out for me for so long. And I think maybe like last year I realized like, oh, this is why, this is why I used to be like just struggling because it it wasn't realistic. But he used to say, like, I'm in the studio every day, I'm done with my day by 11 o'clock. Um, and and no, and what he said what that stood out to me was, I just focus on the music, I don't focus on the business. Somebody else does that. That's not real.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

That's not real. What and what a and what a privilege. Like, that's not even that's not a thing. That's not a thing. Yeah, and who are you as a human? If you can be in the studio every single day for no reason, from like the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep, that means you already have like us some money in a bank, a place to live, and maybe a rich, like rich parents or something, you know what I mean? Or you or opposite, you just straight up don't got no place to live because you live in the studio, you know what I mean? It's one or the or the other. So I'm not saying I just that's how I thought too. I was in the studio like that too. And once I realized like humans are humans and people mess up and they're all they also don't know what they're doing, right? People don't people don't really know what they're doing, you know what I mean? Like, we're all figuring it out, and you might come across someone in your business or creative ventures that are genuinely trying to help you. Those people exist. That's my ecosystem now. Like the the people who I'm attracting now, since I've centered myself and grounded myself creatively, mentally, spiritually, now shit is good because I have that big boundary up, that big uh what you talking about? That don't make no sense.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I'm not doing that, yeah, you know, like that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

So, you know, creative people, we are the best, but we have to go through so many stupid things, so many dumb things, and until we find that that nice area, you know, like yeah, yeah, that sweet spot. That sweet spot. Hold on.

Letting Go Of Doubt And People

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Yes, I agree with you 100%. You know, I um I think you know, I have my time, I have time to really get to my sweet spot for creativity again with podcasting. I uh I made a lot of decisions um when I moved to San Diego because again, we gotta live, we gotta make money. We, you know, I gotta support myself and now, you know, my partner, and that's how to support each other. So, you know, you have to, there's decisions that have to be made, and you have to say, okay, we're gonna put some things on pause, but we'll come back to it at a later date. Um, I want to ask before we move into the next portion, is uh what is one thing that you all have had to maybe let go of to get to where you are now today? And to kind of get to that like moment of okay, we good here.

SPEAKER_05 51:10

That's funny. Um, I think for me, oh man, just like my limiting mindset, like just not fully believing that all of this would work out. Like, I I really had to just trust in something beyond myself. Um, like I believe in myself, but I have to believe in something higher than this because there was that little inkling of doubt. I used to put affirmations on my, and I still do, I still put affirmations on the mirror, but I used to have these affirmations about money because I knew I needed to shift my mindset about money, and something about them just made me uncomfortable. And I had to ask myself one day, like, why are you so uncomfortable saying this? And it was because I didn't believe it. And then I had to check myself, like, why do you not believe that you are worthy of your worth? Like, why do you not believe that you know things flow to you easily? Why don't you believe these things? And when I said with that, it was like, that don't make sense. So shifting my mindset has been helpful, but like, yeah, like really truly releasing that doubt um has been like a game changer for me.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Uh for me, it was people. So when I told you guys about that journey that I went through, which was like being unhoused, starting from scratch, you don't have an identity on earth because you lost everything with losing your apartment, your house, you're living. That's what I that's what happened to me. Um, I realized at that point, and you know how some people they find like um maybe Jesus or chakras or something like that. I kind of at that then stop. At that lowest point for me, at that lowest point for me, I went entirely inward. So it was there was like a shift that happened where I went so so much within where I finally knew what I have to do to be the best version of myself. That included that included clicky groups, like people who are constantly complaining. Okay, I had to get rid of that. People who only talk about work had to get that out of here. Wait a minute now. People who feel like no matter what, the entire world is against them, had to get rid of that because I no longer felt that way. I said, How could I be so poor, so broke, no home, no food? And no one knew about this because I still like just kept a makeup bag on me and just made believe I was like chilling. Yeah, you couldn't tell I didn't, I didn't look like that after I was in such a space where I'm like, whoa, I still can be happy with nothing. I could not accept people around me who didn't understand the value of life. And that is what that is what I got rid of. Human beings. Like, sorry, I don't believe in the the the the if we grew up together or if we're family, if you're toxic, you're toxic. And if you don't see it for yourself, I can't help you see it. So that's that was my I mean the shift was crazy once I just got those out, got those out the way.

SPEAKER_05 54:41

People, yeah, yeah. No, it it definitely does that. Like, you know, I I could think of times where like I would have those surface level connections, and as I'm elevating, it's like this ain't enough. And not that not that these people are not enough, it's just I'm going somewhere else that this space is not enough for me. So I gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

Yeah. I um I had to get to the point to where uh to understand that people make decisions that they make and get okay with, they get okay with saying, I don't know what you want me to do, but this is what you chose. Uh and also being able to sit in uh the uncomfort, discomfort that I sometimes have. Once I was able to say, okay, um shit gonna get shifty. And that's fine. And we're gonna rock it out. And you're gonna, if you have your moments of feeling down, if you have your moments of feeling like, you know, you're not gonna make it today, go ahead and take a nap, and you're gonna get up and you're gonna be here tomorrow. Because we ain't got time for none of the rest of that. We gotta move on, we got shit to do on Tuesday. So let's go ahead and let's let's take our moments uh and um and move the fuck on. I um I used to uh very much so be of the mind of okay, have to, well, I'm still very much of the mind, have to continue moving forward. Uh I have a written down in one of my books, uh, my notebooks, and um I remember for four or five years straight, shit just kept happening. I was going from job to job. Uh I would um I would have to figure out where my money is coming from. I've had several different uh ish situations where I've been out of a job for almost a year or a little longer than that, and I had to just be like, well, we just gonna go to bed and wake up tomorrow and we're gonna try again. Because the reality was that the job wasn't coming no quicker or no slower. You still was just gonna have to apply, and uh shit was just gonna keep coming and going, honey. So gotta work it out. That's fine. That's life.

Burnout Signals And Nervous System Care

SPEAKER_02 57:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

Um, so I've talked a little bit about um, we have talked about struggles, mental health. Uh, we haven't necessarily touched on imposter syndrome, but uh I talked a little bit about imposter syndrome on one of my episodes, more so because um I I think I'm not honest about how much I like to hear myself talk sometimes. So when I um so when I was getting ready to come back and do the show and keep it going, I was like, yeah, but what the fuck are we gonna talk about? I was like, okay, well, we'll figure it out. Anyway, I had an extreme sense of burnout at the time, and um and I was struggling. I was doing a lot. I was trying to keep the show going, I was working. I had I'm in school right now, but now I'm almost finished. Um I had taken on six classes one semester, and I was only uh a little over a year into a new job, and I was just doing too much. And I was like, if I don't take something off of my plate, then I'm going to go into a spiral. So that was be when I started when me and Mike first met. That would be when uh I started to figure out how I was gonna take this show more seriously. And then that would be when I started to be very clear about what my wants and needs were when it came to business and work. Um, and I kind of want to just have a conversation about, you know, when you start, when you have felt or have or feel burned out, what are some of the things that you recognize for yourself and kind of how do you work through some of those things?

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Oh, I'm interested in hearing your answer, Mike.

SPEAKER_05 59:19

So working through burnout, uh that's a good question. Like, I I really feel like in the last year or so I've I've done better about it. Um, because I used to just burn out and just not be able to do nothing for months. And um, I think I really just follow the flow of my feelings. Like if I'm feeling myself not feeling something, I I kind of give in to the feeling and it'll give me that space to get back to where I need to be. Um, yeah, that's that's probably the clears for me.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

Yeah, you saying giving into the feeling is like surrendering, so you let your body know and you let your nervous system know that it's okay. And that's pretty much yeah, and that's less burnout. That's less burnout, and that that's the key right there. That's that's it. Because if I sit here and tell y'all I ain't gonna hold you, it could probably be a nervous system response, or it could probably be a trauma response. I don't feel burnout, you get what I'm saying? Because it might be that well, what if you always burnt out, girl? But what is burnt? But what if my burnout life looks like this? You know what I mean? So I tap in as much as I can. I really do. I tap in as much as I can. I do the work as much as I can. I check in, I ask myself how I'm doing. I'm doing my somatic stuff all the time. Like I'm I'm breathing through everything, but it's not from a place of well, just breathe because you're about to die. It's not like that anymore for me. I I think I reached some sort of switch where I can control this. I can control this, I can control this. If I don't want to do it, I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, and then how do you get burnt out if you don't do it? Now, you know what I mean? Yeah, but also a lot of people believe that burnout is overworking when burnout is doing the same thing over and over again with no results. Okay, okay, so so if I'm trying, I am trying over and oh, I'm not being seen. I have no results. I can't under, I can't get it. I can't get let's say a grant. I'm trying over and over again, or or check this out. I could do this Lion Ryan podcast. I'm on season three twice. I'm on episode one, season one for the third time. Now now you could now I'm gonna let you know right there. I could feel that burnout. I could, I'm not going there. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna try again in April because what did I lose? Who's watching? Because I wasn't consistent, there's no audience. Let's be real. I did that to myself. So who can I be mad at? Oh you know, there's the solution to a lot of what would be burnout. A lot of music artists have burnout because they have no streams, they keep producing music, they make music, they make music videos, they got no views. Well, if we go back and see what we did to not have any views, were you consistent? Did you put out enough content? Are you dropping too many singles at once, confusing the hell out of your audience? Are you doing these things? Because this all matters. So, my burnout. Like I said, I can't say I am perfect, but I just don't believe it's there, whether it's a trauma response or I just found the hack, which is this is your fault anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

So that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

I'm not playing, I'm not playing about my body this year.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:27

That's real. Yeah, and and I think I think for me, a lot of times it's really like, you know, like I just get that feeling, like you said, of doing something so many times, and like just I'll hit that block of like, all right, I want to do this in a different way. And rather than like just being so like bogged down by it, I'll go do something different. Like, that's the same thing I tell people about when they say, like, oh, I have writer's block or I have this, I have that. Oh, you know, just go do something different. If you don't feel like writing a song, go take a picture. You don't want to take a picture, go make a podcast, go do it. Like, we're so creative that we could literally go do anything else. And what I found a lot of times is when I focus my energy somewhere else, it'll bring me right back to that thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

Yep, that's that's human nature, that's our bodies. My favorite thing for when I have the block is to do nothing, and that's just me. That's just me because a lot of my peers don't can't do nothing, silly. We have ADHD, silly. We can't do we can't do nothing. Like my peers don't stop, okay? And I think that I have the closest friend group. I believe I have the closest friend group because I'm neurotypical and a hundred percent of my friends are neurodivergent. A hundred percent, not even one, not even one. And I've been I've been evaluated several times. I'm like, y'all show I ain't got it. I don't, I don't have ADHD, but my friends who do are like magical geniuses, they're genius people, but they also can't sit down. So the burnout and the fatigue is much more intense. So I under I understand both sides, I get it, but try to do nothing, y'all. Just try to just do nothing.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:12

Listen, it's not it's funny because I am one of those people that like I just can't sit still, but then at the same time, when I do sit still, it usually leads to me finding what I need to do. So I I think that stillness is so valuable.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

Yeah, yeah. All the same here, I um when I find myself being still or wanting to do nothing, I'm still doing something. And uh, like recently, my um I was telling my therapist the same thing. I said, I have writer's block, I haven't been able to write. Um, and she's like, Well, guess what? Here's your homework assignment. Go write out them goals that you want to achieve and make sure you write about how this time last year you were struggling so hard and how you almost lost your mind, and then you have. Come find a therapist, and now we're getting you together. Wow. Yeah. So I did. And and I mean, and when she and so when I did that, I then was like, okay, my the juices are flowing, things are happening, things are going. We good. Um, and that's how it happens sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:23

As you say that, Dana, it makes me think about my journaling practice. And Ryan, I'm curious to hear about your practice because I know you designed a journal, but um, yeah, I journal three pages every day, and sometimes I don't have anything to say. Sometimes I got a lot to say. Sometimes I'm just writing bullshit just to just get out of my head, like brain dumping. But uh, Ryan, I'm curious to hear like how journaling has impacted you and how creating a journal has impacted other people.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

Oh, don't you worry. So uh I love journals. Speaking of journals, uh I sell uh this journal on Amazon. Uh, we also are on TikTok shop, and we also uh I can also do orders personally if you need it signed in autographs. So yeah, the reason the reason why I was inspired to do a journal, it wasn't because it's like a digital asset or like something to get rich. It was something that changed my life because I remembered when I was out of everything. I didn't have anything, like nothing. The only thing I had was a pen and paper. Um, when when I was unhoused, I used to go into Barnes and Noble and just read, but I could never buy a book because I was just like so, so broke. I was I had nothing. Like I couldn't buy a Starbucks coffee child. Okay. And I I realized that journaling actually it changed my brain chemistry. It just changed something in me. Mike, you said something really important. When you have nothing to write, try your best to write six pages or more right until you can't write anymore. Because you are, it's not only an exercise, you're basically showing your brain subconsciously, consciously, that you can do hard things. And it translates into other parts of your life, right? So if I constantly don't try to do something, like a lot of people really don't like meditation. And I'm like, so what happens if you put your phone down, but you but you walked for five minutes outside without your phone? I mean, don't touch it, don't touch it, breathe, hear sounds, figure out what your senses are. What do I see? What do I hear? What do I smell? Like, how can I tap into that part of my body? That is what journaling does for me, and that's why I created so many journals. Because once you can write when you don't have anything here, you're just writing bullshit. Like you have nothing, your music is better, your podcasting is better, your speech is better, you pay attention more to human beings when they're speaking. How many of us just start tapping out when people are talking? Like, uh, yeah, yeah. You you find a different part of your brain, and this is just straight up science. When you write stuff down, you are tapping into different parts of your brain, whereas you wouldn't have done that naturally. So journaling is very important, and I think that people should write everything down as soon as they wake up. Like, I mean, breathe, brush the teeth or something, but write it, write something down, three pages, and that's in that book, The Artist Way. That's in that book. Like they say, don't stop writing, they said 13 pages or something like that. I just one page a day for me when I had nothing was how I was able to stay here on this plane. Like it kept me here, it reminded me that I'm capable of all things. And I revert sometimes I go back to those old journal entries, and I can't believe where I'm at right now. I can't even believe where I am. I mean, and that I was thinking so small. You gotta think big, bitch.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:24

You gotta think big. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:27

No, I you gotta think big, bitch. Okay. When I was journaling back then, I look at it sometimes. I still keep some of these pages, some of them I had to throw out, but one of them was like, I will have three thousand dollars. I will I was even doing it wrong. I was journaling wrong. You know what I mean? Like, I was I had no idea what I was capable of, but that was my start to self-healing, self-development, spiritual awareness. You know, like that was my beginning. So journaling is great. If you guys want to pick up a journal, uh, it's everywhere. It's called Get a Grip, the Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Creative Dysphoria for the Creatives.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:07

Absolutely. We'll we'll we're gonna put it in the description box when we uh release the audio episode for show. Because we are all about everybody about to get their money around here.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:18

You don't play too much.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

No, I'm dead ass. I'm like, we everybody about to get a piece.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

I'm gonna do as much as best as I can.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

Um play it around, you know.

Pressure To Perform For The Internet

SPEAKER_03 1:11:29

They know how to hear, I just love what I love about journaling though, too, is that um even on the days where I ain't got shit to say, like Mike was saying, like I just feel like we just gonna doodle a little bit, even that. Like, you know, I do think it is a bit of a mind, um, it's like a tricky play on your mind to be able to just keep it flowing, to be able to do something, uh, to be able to get your thoughts on paper. Uh, I do the same thing. I go back and read some some of my entries, and then I burn the book because I'll be like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, but I also think a part of that is how manifestation happens because you burn it and it goes out to the atmosphere. Um and even I've read some of my entries before I've moved to San Diego and to what I've gotten here. And um I just be cracking up because I'd be thinking the same thing like, wow, it was just the small things that I wanted for. And you don't even realize how you've manifested and put yourself into the place that you are in today. Uh, and like how you've written it out, you've planned it for yourself. Even though you weren't as descriptive as maybe you some folks would say you should be, uh, you still were able to kind of put it on paper and say what you needed to say to be able to move what you wanted to move forward from. Um, so I kind of want to talk a little bit about um creators and kind of the content we consume on a daily basis. We as people, we are always scrolling. We're always seeing things we have our favorites, we have our people that we consistently watch. But in the in the grand scheme of talking about burnout and kind of when we see our when we see our favorites uh start to maybe fall off or not be consistent, what do you think um are some of the pressures that creators feel when it comes to trying to consistently hit that algorithm or trying to consistently keep it going or keep the audience? Um and do you think it's burnout or do you think it's just something where there's so much pressure to stay on top all the time? What are y'all thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

Let's go, Mike.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:02

I you know, as you asked that question, what came up for me was I think that so many creatives are also consumers. So a lot of times people put the same pressure on themselves that they put on their favorite artist or whoever. Like, you know, you ever notice like when an artist is evolving or they're like they're they're doing something different, people are like, no, but I want this version of you. And some of us as creatives, we do that to ourselves, which is crazy. But you see, people that are shifting other places, but they feel like they have to stay tapped into this one thing. I remember for me with the podcast, people kept labeling my podcast a mental health podcast, which is beautiful, amazing. But also, I'm on this creative journey that like is so much deeper than just mental health. And uh I remember having that feeling of like feeling like I needed to be confined to creating this, and it just wasn't in alignment. So I started doing something different, but I think uh sometimes people don't have that awareness to follow the feeling, and they just get stuck in boxing themselves in as opposed to like you know, creating the box. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:19

So, Dana, was the question saying, How do we feel when we see our favorites fall off? Or was it like, what happens when we fall off?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

Yeah, I mean, it it's a it's a two-prong question, honestly. When you see your favorites fall off, what what do you think the struggle can be? But also for yourself, when you start to get to that point where you're like, um, I'm kind of falling back on this. What it what do you think it is? What do you think comes up for you, or what is the first thought that comes to your mind for those types of situations?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

Yeah, I think it's just like situational, right? Like if they're a super sensitive creative being, which most very passionate artists are, you know exactly why they fell off. They just they're taking everything that they produce very personally, they're becoming so vulnerable and putting out pieces of themselves and not getting the response they wanted or needed. That's that's artist brain, straight up. For me, for me, if I fall, I ain't got time. Like for me, I'm not that deep, you know. Like I am an artist person, I swear. It's just I just know both sides really well. And if you see me not doing something, it's because I physically can't do it. So, for like, let's say example, Lion Ryan podcast. I filmed a podcast right here, right? Like the sign is up here. I'm covering the sign right here. I have two animals in my home. I have no team, so I'm setting up these cameras, my roadcaster, the laptop for notes, my cards, two lights. Like, and then it's hard to do that alone. Set up, test sound, test audio, test visual, and then my dogs start doing zoomies. Knock my whole shit down, knock my whole. I'm talking about knock my whole shit down. That's happening. And because I'm not a crash out anymore, I said, okay, well, this was a this was a choice you made, Ryan. Like, you got two dogs, you don't have a large space, you are filming from home, you can't afford a podcast studio, right? So I'm doing everything myself. So I was like, uh, I'll do this when I feel like it, because I can't I physically couldn't do it. I physically could not do it. So the artist in me was like, dang, I want to, but I imagine doing that again. I'm talking about you, you're filming the whole episode. I'm talking about an hour in. I'm a solo podcaster.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:00

Animals knock the whole setup up. Okay, so that's you, you just never know what people are going through in their back end, like you just don't know. And I would say if you have a favorite that you're watching, like you know, be like, know that people go through things. It's okay, whether it's mentally, in my case, physically, go go, we go through things. So I it's much easier for me to set up my smaller camera and do these get a grip videos every day, as opposed to set up my larger setup and film an episode, an hour and a half long episode of Lion Ryan, because the dogs ain't having that. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, so I don't get too down, I don't get like messed up when creators are inconsistent. Inconsistency is part of life, you know? Yes, it's part of life. And yeah, if you're judging someone because they didn't show up the way you want them to show up, you should probably get checked out because like why are you on them like that? You know? So I'm I'm not too harsh on myself anymore. It's gonna be okay. Try again. Try again. If you ever seen your camera and two$300 lights on the floor after filming for an hour, and then you lose all footage and sound, it's okay. Yep, just try again. Just just try again, just try again, it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:31

I mean 100%, 100% because I up in there, all those places. Uh I what was it last month, Mike, where I lost all the content. Yeah, I had to re-record the entire episode that I recorded back in uh October. And and so imagine February release. For February release. Imagine me thinking I'm so cute, so organized, up in here, just oh, you know, we're gonna clean our files, we gonna, you know, get this organized, put this there, only to get ready to come back and be like, oh my gosh, where is this file? I recorded it on this date. Then to um to be like, oh my gosh, it's gone. Emailing Zoom, Zoom, like, girl, I don't know what to tell you. Your files ain't here. They sure enough said, they said, sir, your files are recorded to your computer every time you do a Zoom meeting. So if you don't see them, it's because you don't. Yeah. And I said, Oh, you didn't have to read me like that, but okay, like I guess you're right. Sure enough, I ended up, I ended up accidentally deleting them and had to re-record the entire episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:01

And so I feel you, you know, and I and that was the point, that's the point of the question, right? Is like I think as today in today's world, and what I see a lot happening on the internet and in media, is that folks get so hard on their favorite celebrities, on their favorite content creators, on the people that they love to see consistent. That I think what also it starts to revolve around is you can't put your happiness in somebody else's hands and you damn sure can't do it for people who are on social media. That's not where you get your happiness from.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:39

That's a little bit weird, but yeah, that's and Ryan, kind of going back to what you were saying. I think people put so much pressure on these creatives because they don't want to take control of their own lives. Like that's right, because if you're worried about me, how you doing in your own life?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:55

And what's going on? You in them shade room comments way too much, okay? Way too much, way too much, okay. I know you at work, you were on the clock, okay. All right, you better get to feed your kids. So that's that's that's all I'm saying. I I also forgot to mention, like, um, when you are getting too down on yourself because you weren't consistent for the month or like the last three months. I need you to realize or maybe take back control of why you started. Yeah, maybe that's but that's where we have to kind of rewind or like get a grip, you know. Why did I even start? Why did I start this journey? Well, I was passionate at first, but now I made this shit such a job that I started to hate it. I I gained anxiety over no reason, nothing, no reason at all. Now I don't want to do it. Yeah, yeah, you forgot why you started, and now you think you need to show up for the world, they ain't worried about you.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:01

Yeah, I got I got a question, Ryan. It's it's a little off topic, but on topic. But I'm curious how did you heal your relationship with music? Just because I know you share with us how like you like went through the trenches with it. And I know that you still create, but to go from creating from that place to like creating in a healthy place, like how did you get there?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:23

Yeah. So when I first started doing music while in college, I went to college not for music. Wow, yeah, I went to college for communication and graphic design, right? I was doing music. I was singing covers on YouTube, I was singing like random covers, Amy Winehouse covers, I guess. Just singing right into the computer, ratchet, ghetto. Just like bad lighting, like meet you downstairs, like wilding out, right? I was wilding out every single day. I was putting out covers into the laptop, like hot mic, sounded terrible. And a producer scooped me up, right? He was watching me for a long time, scooped me up. He was a blessing and showed me what the music industry was until I saw too much, right? He was great, my experience was great. I was very young, I was in my low younger 20s, straight out of college, and I had a dream. Remember, we all start, like you said, your Kanye. What kind was Beyoncé? Yeah, I was like, Oh, I'm a I'm gonna do that. Yeah, okay. So, so I had that. I was so passionate, also so green, and wanted to do the big thing, the biggest thing in music ever, until I saw everything. I saw the abuse, I saw the drugs, I saw the manipulation, I saw the two the two-faced uh thing. Like the higher up you go in any industry, so I'm not gonna say it's just music, it's entertainment, it's film, it's music, it's everything. I don't care. I'm not some whistleblower, I'm just a person who doesn't care. Um, the higher up you go, and I got really high, I'm still there actually, and the more you will see, the more you will see. And because I said I don't like this, I got dropped from everything. I got stripped of everything. And I took a five-year hiatus, didn't make a record, didn't do anything, didn't do any shows. And my way, Mike, how I got back in was through doing what I'm good at, which is songwriting, vocal production, and um syncs. So I found a way that I could license my talent and my voice, make a lot of money at once, and not be in front of the camera. I mean, no tours. That's not my dream. That's not no shade. Like to anybody who loves to be on tour and likes to jump up and down on stage, it's not my dream. No shade. Like, I don't mean that in any shady way because I have clients who legit tell me, no, I want to be famous. So I have to understand that psychologically, I have to deal with bit build with that. Like, I understand I was there, and you will, you most likely will. But for me, I couldn't sell that part of myself. So I came back in a way where I don't have to feel depleted every morning because I'm not following my dreams. My talent is rapping and singing. I can still do that, write for larger artists than me, straight up ghostwriter over here. I don't care. I'm a straight up ghostwriter writing with labels, meeting with their teams, their managers, their producers, straight up ghostwriting. I don't even gotta be in that studio anymore. Yeah, I don't even gotta leave my house. Hello? Okay, I don't have to leave my house. I can hear myself on TV when I'm watching commercials. It's my voice because I wrote the jingle for the latest three biggest makeup brands.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:10

I found you know when you leave them.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:18

Okay, you know what I'm saying? I hear my voice almost every day, and no one knows it's me. So Mike, Mike, when I found out that I didn't crave fame, I I craved being creative, it saved my life. So I found my happy space. It wasn't fame, it was it was not validation, it was I just want to do what the fuck I'm good at, please. And I don't want to do all the other things that come with it. So I found my way through research, a lot of practice, um basically googling the the the The people who can get you into the movies. What is what is a vo what is a music supervisor, kids? You know what I mean? What are the people who are the people's titles that are are taking submissions for jingles when it comes to a Kit Kat commercial? Those people have jobs. I forgot about that. So once I started finding emails, you should be submitting every day. If you if you don't, if you're like me and don't care about being famous, you know, but through those, through this work, I mean I've gained so many connections to people who are amazing, just good hearted humans. It's it's now it's no longer a competition, it's no longer like no, I'm I gotta be more famous than you. There's no more like ass kissing. There's there's no more of that because I'm behind, I'm behind the scenes, and my music is still out there. So if you care about making money in the field and it's creative, you have to chat GPT or something. How can I like I don't know what to, you know, how can I make money as a musical producer? You get what I'm saying? But but I you have to you have to think outside the box, it's not always about you being Kanye, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:19

You know, it's so I it's funny. I have while you're talking, the first thought that I think about is some of the artists who you would see going really, really hard for a period of time and then they disappear, then they come back for a period of time, and then you hear kind of the same thing of well, I decided to start writing behind the scenes. I started to do uh work on projects with these people, and I started to do uh this with that group. And I I wonder, is that the same conversations that they're having with themselves, or is that the same um kind of breakdown that they're having? Is I want this is what I'm gonna do, but I want to do it this way. I don't want to be on the stage all the time. Um, and it's it's it's interesting. It's interesting to me. And I but I also think it's cool because you you then find yourself still doing the thing that you want to do, still going the direction you want to go in, um, and still finding yourself at that endpoint, which is doing the creative thing that you want to do and making the money that you need to make. Yeah, I love it. I'm here for it, honey.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:34

And also, if you still want to be on the stages, that's awesome too. And that's gotta hit a stage if I get a you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it just has to make sense for me. It's no longer this is the only thing that makes sense. No, the stage can still make sense if it makes sense, right?

Break And A Second Subscribe Push

GAG Framework For Overwhelm

SPEAKER_03 1:30:55

I agree, I agree. Um, so we've been going out for an hour and 30 minutes. Uh, I have an activity for us to do, but I want to give us a couple of seconds to have a little bath and chat. So I'm going to put us on a little break and we will be right back, everybody. So if you've made it this far in this episode and you haven't subscribed yet, that's wild. Go ahead and hit that subscribe button on YouTube, follow us on Instagram, tap in everywhere, child, because apparently the algorithm only respects consistency and emotional damage. And to my professional doom scrollers out there, girl, yes, I'm talking to you. If you can scroll for 47 minutes and not press the subscribe button, we can have a full conversation on how you need to go ahead and dedicate yourself to something, girl, because it sounds like you've got some dedication issues. Help us be the algorithm, girl. Like, comment, share, send it to your girlfriends, your your boyfriends, your lady friends, your they them friends. The ones who love the chit chat about all the tea but never really want to start that podcast because I want them in my comment box. Don't just watch a cheese made, join the cheese made girl. Subscribe, follow, and stay connected, honey, because we building something cute up over here, and we want you to be a part of it. And we are back. We've been talking about some things, we've been going through some things, and I love it. Um, if I haven't thanked y'all yet or before, I'm so thankful that y'all chose to come and hang out with me this afternoon. Well, even for y'all on this uh uh Friday. So I do want to say thank you, and yes, I will thank you guys again at the end of the show. But it's just been fun, it's really cool. I love having these types of conversations and um and really the big goal for me today was really just to talk through uh all of the different things that come up for creatives um and artists and um folks who are doing something to be seen by other folks, uh because I think what's important to me is that we all go through some shit. And we all have been through some shit to get to where we are today. And I don't think people um I don't think that is talked about enough. And I don't think people accept that as a response enough from us as creators and as the people who produce things to be able to provide for the world to see, listen, use, or hear. So um that was that's the biggest goal, and I am more than sure we are definitely tapping in and touching on those things uh as we're having this conversation. Um so I do have an activity. It's called Gag or Keep the Cheeseman Come. And it is definitely based on uh Ryan's uh gag get a grip uh project. And before we jump in, I do want Ryan to kind of talk a little bit about gag, uh, and then we'll jump into the activity.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:40

Well, this sounds fun. So, all right, we'll make this quick. So, gag is a movement specifically created by me, an artist for artists who need to learn to get a grip when it comes to overwhelming fatigue, decision fatigue, analysis paralysis, overthinking before taking action, imposter syndrome, the things that we can control. So, when I say what I live by is if you can control it, you can change it. Okay. When you can't control it, let it go. The art of letting go. Hello, Mike Brown. So get a grip is a movement created to just let artists know that when things are overwhelming and feel incomplete, and feel like you can no longer sustain or mobilize your body. Step back, take a seat, and get a grip or gag.

Gag Or Keep It Coming Game

SPEAKER_03 1:35:45

Fantastic. And so I've created, I have like five scenarios here, um, just based on uh random topics, based on what you know, sometimes you see about creatives. Sometimes some of them, one of them speaks truly to my everyday life. But uh, I created five scenarios. And really, my thought is we can we will make a decision on either they need to get a grip or they should keep the key cheese make coming. Um, so the first one I'll read and we'll get a feel. Uh, it says a creator has 10 pieces of content ready to go, but hasn't posted in three months because they're waiting for the perfect time, the perfect aesthetic, and the perfect partnership to align their content with. Does this creator need to gag or should they just go ahead and keep the content coming? Gag.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:41

Exactly that.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:44

Yes. I mean, the funny part is I feel like I feel like this happens more often than not because you would hear, I do have my favorite content creators, I do have some that I watch consistently, and I would see something, and I'm like, oh, I'm surprised this creator hasn't released this. Next thing you know, here comes the the content, but it's connected to this brand deal. And I'm like, well, were you waiting to post this? Like you should have just did it days ago. Like, what's what's the point of waiting? So it's it's very it's just so interesting to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:27

So that's that's fair. I mean, the the brand the brand deal is fair, but like having the content ready for me, I'm like, shit, you ahead of the game because it'd be days where I just don't want to do this shit. So if you got that many pieces of content ready, get a fucking grip and put that shit out.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:44

Right on, right on. Dana, you are harsh, okay? You are a harsh critic, okay. Oh my gosh, I get DMs sometimes like, where's the talking head videos, girl?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:59

I'm like, girl, you try setting up in this house, like you know, listen, I have a spreadsheet, it'd be people and the only the only reason that I can even move the things through is because of this spreadsheet and the dates. Um I'm like, mm-mm. I don't have the perfect time, is the date that I said it's due.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:26

The perfect the perfect time is like please just post the thing because you don't know what the algorithm's gonna do, y'all. You don't know, you don't know. And sometimes with the brand deal stuff with the larger creators, like the one million, two million followers girl, um, girls, they sometimes have contractual obligations, so they they sometimes can't, but for the you know, for the little 60k girls like me, you girl put it out, put it out.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:55

And I love that you said that about the algorithm because it's been a few times where I've been like, Oh, I love this video. This the one you get that two likes on it, you like, what the hell? Yeah, this show is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:06

Yeah, that's why I'm telling you, y'all better take your emotions out the post.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:10

Are you absolutely right?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:11

Yeah, take your emotions out of your post, keep it into the work. The social media is just the extendo, it's just like the extender of the work. The work is the work. You get what I'm saying? Absolutely right. It's you know, you better take it easy on yourself and get a grip.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:28

Yeah, I mean, I just told y'all that I just TikTok just started recognizing that I post, and I've been doing this for almost three years. Uh, and I mean, just out of nowhere, I was at work one day and it was like, oh, you got 50 new likes on your video.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:46

I said 50 new likes, and I didn't even pay for it. Like, I'm the paper promo. Wait, what? Like, what are we? What are we talking about here?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:57

That algorithm will do its thing out of nowhere. That's why I'm like, if if you did not get any traction on your post, please know that the algorithm sometimes will go to your post from last month and somehow push it out. Somebody saw it. So please post and don't look at them numbers too much.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:17

You're absolutely right about that. And it's funny, like you said, you don't know who's watching, like it's opportunity that I've gotten off of like these one or two like videos from somebody just liking the aesthetic and being like, I want to work with you because of this. So, yeah, keep putting yourself out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:36

Um, all right, and don't let people like Dana follow uh bother you when you when you fall off a month. Don't let don't let Dana bother you.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:45

Like, what is you doing? Are you dizzy? Like, what's happening here? Um, okay, so the second scenario is a creator starts shifting all their content to trends so they can continuously get the viral moments. Their numbers are going up, but their content is no longer feels like them. It has become all about just creating a moment for numbers. Do you need to gag or should it just keep the content coming? Keep the cheese make up.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:18

I say it depends on the creator. If you are that creator where you want to go ahead and uh make a quick bag, go do those trends, girl. Y'all, like, do all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:28

Like do it to us, do do that, do that, do all that. Like you know, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:36

Like, that's what you want to do. You know, that's the type of creator you are, and you need that coin real quick, girl, go do that. Like, that's that's up to you.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:46

And I say as long as it feels good to you, like if you if you're doing stuff that don't feel good, then you need to check yourself. But if if it's fun and and it don't feel that serious, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:56

That's right, yeah. I agree. I um if I had more time and like I could do this consistently, I would. I would do like Mike. I do I've done a couple of unboxings. I'm about to do another one. Um, and I like that, but that's also because I'm like the child. So, you know, it's like, why not use utilize the fact that I like to spend money and put it on social media? You like let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:25

You should. And I will tell you, you should definitely talk to Ryan off camera because she gave me game on the TikTok shop. So as you're doing the unboxings, if the stuff is there, tagging it, selling it.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:39

Yeah, yes, yes, yes. No, I I I'm here for it. And I I feel like I also realize there are people who do selling lives where they're making a ton of money off of people just clicking the links and etc.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:55

I mean, but again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about you know, going live every day. It's just, I'm like, gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:04

Well, do three days, Dana. Do three days, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:09

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:10

Try it, see what see what happens. You have your favorite bag and it's on the TikTok shop. If it's on the TikTok shop, you go live and you just talk up and then you tag the bag in the little orange cart. You you just have to talk about the bag for about an hour, and okay, and people just buy. I I collect for no reason on TikTok, just for no reason. Okay, I got everything from gut health pills to this it's a hair growth, magical pills. There's just things there for no reason, and even when it's not about the money, I'm just like, this is kind of fun. Like it's just a little bit fun, even when you don't have the time. If you don't have the time, just don't do it. But it is an extra way to make money.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:58

No, I mean, I so uh so Mike in the in his head is it's talking about me because he's already had these conversations, and he's already been like, um, he's like, if your audience is engaging with you live, then you need to fucking go.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:16

Yeah, and he's right, he's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:19

Um, and it's just it's just I just need to sit my ass down and do it. And it could be the simple as just doing it like right now. No one's home. I could I or last night, I could have gone live last night. But I agree. It I think that you know, like you've already said, just do it, and that's really just sit my ass down and make it happen, is what it was.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:44

Yep, and not every day. You can start with two days, you can start with three days, but you'll see result with five days.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:49

Shit, I'm even thinking as we're talking, like as you planning out the episodes, like if it's taking you an hour to plan out the episode, should just turn the camera on. Why you planning, telling the people what you're doing, what's gonna be on this episode, who's gonna be the guest, what y'all want to hear.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:04

Yep, that's it. That's really it.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:07

You see him doing this. Why y'all, why y'all at it is by this chair, by this mic? This is what happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:14

Right. Like every these these shirt mics are on the TikTok shop, like they're they're here. So, you know, you know, listen, I've done the same thing. For me, I'll go live and it lasts for so long. I'll be like, oh, I'm so tired after this. Oh, but then I I look at what I made after the live, and I'm like, boy, this is nuts, and that's from not selling anything, that was just gifts.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:40

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:42

So go look at I'm gonna put some energy into it in April.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:48

I'm a I'm a two days, two days a week, and it's so awkward at first, and it's so weird, and no one's watching at first, and then magically see the thing that I like about see, we on YouTube, I love YouTube, but um on TikTok life. The thing that I love about TikTok, it's not your followers that is that are watching you, it's strangers, they are strangers. So I'm talking like people from all over the world come in, and if there's if you snatch them in the last like the first 0.5 seconds, they stay in there and they start just tapping the screen. The when they start tapping the screen, it pushes you out into the algorithm, and then they start giving you gifts. And just from an hour of you, like you making black eyed peas, Dana, you will you you know, making your favorite meal, black eyed, your favorite meal with them cold collards. They already, they already gifted you, they already gifted you, and by the time your live is done, you made a hundred bucks from gifts. So, yeah, even if there's no one in the room, it's just people coming into the room and leaving a lot. That's why it's like intimidating and weird. But yeah, once you get over that, it's like uh, well, we all gonna die one day, so go live.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:00

Yeah, that's true. I'm gonna make it happen. It's gonna happen. Um all right, so the next scenario is uh a little bit similar to the first one. Um, it's a creator is doing the 30-day posting challenge, which I'm thinking about doing in July. Uh so I'm excited. Um I just want to see if it works. Uh they're posting every single day, staying consistent, hitting all the rules, but they start to feel drained, uninspired, and low-key, um, and low-key hitting a creative block. Uh, they're thinking that, you know, where do I go from here? How do I keep posting as tired? Should they gag or just keep pushing through and keep the cheese make out?

SPEAKER_05 1:47:47

That's a good one. Um, you know, when I when I think about the the block, I'm like, keep the cheese make on. Um, and and this feel can are there questions where there could be both? Because it does feel like a get a grip and keep it going.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:07

Yeah. Because I do feel like it's both, honestly. I'm not gonna lie to you. I feel like they need to kind of have that moment with themselves, sit in it. Yeah, have that moment of feeling burnt out or feeling whatever you feeling. Take that time, take a nap. If you need to.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:25

Here we go with the nap. Dana, you got you.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:32

You know, I'm not it's true. It's so oh, that's too funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:36

Yeah, it's true. Uh, I'm gonna tell you now. So if you feel like you're gonna do your 30 post push, you're gonna do it for real, for real, you're gonna have to prepare yourself. So, what you should do is you should take an hour or two hours the month prior and record a batch of content, and you should edit your batch of content before even thinking about posting every single day in your month. You should have pre-recorded, pre-edited content and you should schedule it. Shit becomes a lot easy when you schedule your content. People don't, I don't, I don't understand why people don't want to schedule their content. So I've I've had a lot of clients tell me that Ryan, no, I feel emotionally connected to my content. I don't always want to schedule, and that's fair and fine. But imagine what it would feel like if you got emotionally attached to some content or inspired to shoot today, shoot, edit, and post, and you still had one thing already going from your edited content. You get what I'm saying? It just creates more volume for the algorithm, it crum, it promotes more success for you or your business or your brand, and you can you can still be fluid and go. post wherever you want to post but girl you gotta you gotta edit that stuff before you start thinking you're about to shoot edit and post for 30 days straight that's how burnout happens yeah that's not a thing don't get up in the morning and be like every single morning I'm gonna unless your content is very like low production and you're just like the you just like talking to the screen like this no cuts do it like that then that you can do that for 30 days straight but if you're not that person and you do have edits and you do have lighting sometimes just batch record batch record three at a time four at a time it it does not become a it's not a thing it's not a thing if you know how to edit your stuff schedule your stuff and go about your life imagine you not even looking at your phone because you got four days done look I I'm one of them sensitive creatives you talked about and some days I just don't want to do this shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:56

So having that shit ahead of time on them days where I don't feel like doing it already got it done. Yeah I don't have to done that's that's that's free game Ryan and as you were saying that I was gonna ask you how many at minimum how many pieces of content would you say to have ready for like a 30 day rollout 30.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:19

That's okay that's yeah that's real if if you have a launch a project or even you just want to do some like identity work like let me see if I can like push myself like to do something hard if you are doing a challenge within your ecosystem have 30 and see what that looks like but you don't have to have 30 every day where you're setting up your camera then editing then posting then going and doing your other jobs that's too much work. You see how I film my content so every time I'm on that damn couch talking about get a grip I'm I'm filming like six videos in the same outfit then I'm editing and then I'm scheduling the captions and the posts are already done so all I have to do is when it goes live I make sure that I'm engaging with whatever comments I get that day because some days I may not get any comments some days I'm flooding so I imagine if I was sitting there every day for three minutes because every minute every video is three minutes that I do three minutes of filming every day editing sound design color grading and then breaking down all my equipment and then posting I would be cooked yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah cooked just batch record batch record and you can do 30 days because when you batch record 10 days are already done in one sitting in one hour yeah just batch record it it's okay you can do it you can do it have something dropping if you have something dropping you can get crazy yeah yeah you know what I mean a song a a podcast episode that you want to build merch if you have something dropping that 30 days is gonna do something so powerful and you're gonna be like wow this is what I had to do the whole time and I I will say I I agree with that I took maybe like two three years ago uh my partner and I we did like a merch madness challenge where we took 30 days to just promote ourselves and I sold maybe like 60 pieces of merch in the 30 days see see it just it's just more volume it's it's like people try to keep it a secret and it's just not a secret it's not like the more you push out the more the algorithm will push you towards the masses and that's the algorithm love you for that yeah you know I I mean the algorithm especially the one on on TikTok we we be I'd be like oh we about to throw some bows you fight in the algorithm Dana I don't need you fight yeah not the algorithm it's just it'd be trying to take me out and I'll be like what is going on no nobody has an excuse listen if I went to my TikTok I have not a lot of followers on TikTok like 11k or something like that right and yo there's videos with zero views on TikTok it didn't take me out I was like listen I'm posting the same video who's gonna whoop me I'm gonna repost the same video y'all didn't like it this time like it this time exactly I repo I'm talking about I don't change the captions nothing Jesus I just put it up okay that's it I mean I've never even thought about that I yeah no one saw it yeah put it up it might have just not been the time for it that's it yeah that's all that's crazy I mean and it's the interesting part is you that we see it happen more on more times than not and people are doing this every they will repost their videos they'll put it back up they don't give a damn they're like I'm not even second thinking this this is just about to get reposted right and either they they gonna watch it again and I don't give a fuck but we're about to get them views though that's what we're here for. Yeah I feel that I feel that um uh the next scenario is uh someone is working a full-time job that pays the bills but their real passion is being a podcaster and content creator on the side they want to show up more fully online be more visible more honest more uh but uh they hold back uh they're worried about coworkers watching family judging or not being taken seriously in their professional life at the same time their creative work isn't fully monetized yet so walking away from stability doesn't feel like an option so they stay in the middle and play it safe in both worlds do they need to gag or keep the cheese make coming take a breath gag and keep the cheese made coming yeah get a grip like your family members ain't paying your bills like if you don't if you don't have them subscribe yeah they don't even listen i no shade i don't follow my mother or father they don't have nothing to do with this they don't have it's not about them Chris okay they have nothing to do with this they support my journey but it's not like say I put out a merch drop today can your mom and dad or whomever is alive right now in your family buy your whole collection no you know you're posting for the people that you think are supposed to be supporting you when this the strangers are the people who care and Ryan you may you may know more about this but I saw on YouTube that you actually don't want people who aren't watching to subscribe because somebody was saying like if all your family members and friends subscribing but not watching that's actually hurting you in the right I don't listen I don't follow them back you think I'm playing I don't think I'm playing they don't it doesn't matter like I love y'all but this is not for you this is not for you all the things that I create I'm happy and grateful that you are watching but you can't change my life you know if you could you would right so all the strangers that are watching me in Africa and Asia and the Bronx you know like all the strangers that are just watching me and buying and subscribing and booking me for one-on-ones and those are people I don't know those are people who found me from the internet and if you keep on depending on your friends and family to change your life then you don't even have to create because why can't they just give you a check then right you know and if you also have some shame or like um some shyness around like your old high school buddies or your old college buddies because you are somebody different than what you were growing up as a child that's stupid but you can also just make another page and start from scratch make another email address make another page and do not subscribe to childhood or friends and family members on that page keep a different page for that then because if it's something psychological that's holding you back because they know you're never gonna thrive you're never you know so the last one we have more so revolves around uh what we were talking about earlier with like comparison spiraling uh so a creator spends more time watching other people's content than creating their own every time they're about to post they stop because they feel like somebody else has done it better and done the post better.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:10

So do they gag or keep the cheese in their top I feel like I already know Mike's answer. Ryan you got that journal can you hold that journal up please exactly yes you know I think what's interesting how much we we've talked about this earlier how much people compare themselves to others on social media and um and it just it just happens all the time every day I am guilty of it sometimes um but you know I would say what's important is understanding where you are in your journey and let that be your journey and not getting too wrapped up in everybody else and what they got going on.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:55

And a and a little helpful tool unfollow mute those are your friends like I'm telling you like I would find myself following like following people and when it would make me feel something or charge something for me I'm like you know what I don't need to follow this I don't need to see this.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:14

Yep. You were so okay can I ask a question this is this is random because I just saw a thread and a lady said a woman said I've recently had to find myself unfollowing people who I love because I'm jealous and I want to be them is that what you're talking about so I'm talking in the sense of like I've had moments where I felt like I'm supposed to be doing something and somebody else is getting in it's like that's that's not energy that I even need to be worried about.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:45

It's almost like distracting myself energy if that makes sense like you know you really don't care about that shit. But because you feeling whatever you feeling you need some you need to put this energy somewhere so you look in at something else like oh I'm supposed to be ahead of this or just fucking block it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:04

You know what I mean or or this this is where I want to be don't worry about that right right so it's what works for you is just to to block the actual person so that you don't feel that you want to be them and it's like it don't even have nothing like a nine times out of 10 for me it don't have nothing to do with person. Okay. Okay okay because I I had to process that okay yeah when uh not not when you just said it when I saw a woman write that shit out on threads like that's a hard thing to write yeah and she said it she said it straight up like I want too much of what I'm following and I don't have it so I have to block these people and for me I was just like wait well how come you can't see it and be inspired so I I thought a little I thought differently I thought a little differently but I understand how you're saying it Mike I get what you're saying. I get and for me it's like you got so many amazing things going on in your life that it's like why would this one thing I and I'll give you an example um maybe like two years ago I was like just in it just knocking shit out and this one thing this one publication comes out and gives like the top 10 queer podcasts and I wasn't on the list and I'm like man what I was supposed to be on that list and that's not who cares like right you got so many you got so many of your own cool things going on why are you worried about somebody's list that some human just created and it may it may mean something it may not but like what is it and when I said with it's like I didn't even know this list existed like yeah yeah and what happened but I'm I'm so interested because like so so is that something that you had to like physically block so you couldn't see it uh so what one of the podcasts that was on the list I did block just because I felt like um people would compare us a lot and I I didn't feel the comparison till I saw that then that moment made me feel the comparison you know what I mean okay okay and and I and I felt and I felt myself being a hater if I'm being honest I felt myself being a hater okay and it didn't feel good on me because that's just not who I am you know what I mean yeah that's not right you know and this is what I've been in I was in therapy for about three eight years right and um when I was talking to the lady uh I I used to I used to tell her like hey my friends care a lot why don't I care right I don't so when I ask you like I'm not trying to be condescending like why why do you have to block you know I mean why do you have to block it I'm thoroughly asking because I'm like well I wouldn't even give a fuck you know so I'm that's part of my like processing of like humans as well like when people tell me they want to be famous I was like okay you know I still have to run that through here over and over again until I understand our brains don't think the same but as long as they're not you're being absolutely non-harmful to yourself and you're saying Ryan in order for me to feel good I had to block that shit out yeah and and and you know it's so funny for me it mainly comes up in the queer space just because I know I'm not the quintessential I'm not the exactly I'm I'm I'm not just you know I got my own my own way of doing things so you are you a lot of times I do feel like yeah I do want to be on these lists more so for the people that are like me to see like oh this is possible but it's it's never truly about and I think that's when I had to like check myself like when it's starting to come up like oh it like this person on the list don't have nothing to do with this.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:58

You know what I'm saying? Like you can't take this out on that. You know what I mean? And I think now being in the space of like having my own business like really focused on my own shit like having my own world it's like the the game has changed like there's nothing outside of my world that matters because I know where I'm trying to go. You know what I mean that's right. But when you're playing somebody else's game you kind of like trying to navigate they rules and it's like you don't even play you're not even playing to those rules like yeah you lose yourself true very true wow um this is amazing it's like that Kanye line sorry but you know that Kanye line like damn these niggas that much better than me right you and that damn Kanye. Who cares?

SPEAKER_03 2:05:48

You know what I mean like in the reality is like it doesn't matter it doesn't matter it doesn't matter but that's what I was trying to say like before you block people does it even matter if they are there you're absolutely right you know what I mean that that's that's all I was kind of thinking about but if it helps your brain block them you know if that helps block them and not as far as a block more so like a mute you know what I mean like let's give it a little mute muted for a little while come back to it you know wow okay see y'all would think I'm on this phone a lot I'm not I'm really not scheduled I so right there so right there is where I reside uh Ryan because I put that phone down I my you know whatever is getting posted is getting posted if I'm adding anything additional my phone literally goes right down I I don't um um I definitely am not a TikTok scroller uh I don't um I just I just um I don't subscribe as much as I am on it and as much as I put the content we we put the content out there I'm not watching well no listen because what I want to hear this no just because it's because you outside I have because I'm I'm busy but no but on a serious note it's really just because I have found myself trying to compare myself to the people like to my to my peers to the you know the folks that I do enjoy that I watch uh consistently I found myself there and because I do still want to continue to enjoy them it's best that I not that I not have myself consistently on the and scrolling and on the media. So I completely understand what Mike is saying.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:49

Yeah doom scrolling gonna is is gonna hurt you. Doom scrolling will always hurt you over consumption before overcreating will always hurt you. It's never there's never like a scenario where that's going to be better. You know what I mean if that is not your job you know and I work specifically in social media companies hire me for social media management and I still make sure that my scroll time it it just has to be curated because you know it can mess you up.

What Success Means Now

SPEAKER_03 2:08:22

Yeah you know I will tell you a way to beat that doom scrolling is take a week off social media take a week off of that shit and you will go back to it and it just feels like slop sometimes like ugly I took a month um next to Christmas because I was like I'm not posting all of December you know and it didn't really do anything for me because like I know I got so much responsibility when I get back you know so but it but it always helps when your phone is not in your hand it just helps and it's so ironic that we work these jobs and we do these things with podcasting we literally work in some of these things but we work well so I I know the balance I think everything in moderation just like brown lick you know like everything in moderation yeah um so we've talked a lot about just journey the journey to get to where we are where we've been and um I think a great way to kind of round out the conversation is to touch a little bit on what we feel uh success is um and you know kind of saying out loud where we are now and how we feel about success and what we uh think it means to us. So um so I'll say you know right now today in knowing all the things that you've been through and knowing where you are um what does success mean for you now and what does it look like for you right now today whoever wants to start my man oh that's I appreciate this oh you know what no lie though I appreciate you doing this because Mike the Mike is a true Libra true and true and we'll be quiet but we'll jump in when he needs to when he you know feels like he has something to say um but I appreciate you making him talk more because I told him yesterday I was like I want you to like just feel like it's a co-host like we all co-hosted this episode together. So I appreciate that. But go ahead Mike I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:06

Oh that's too funny. Yeah I appreciate that um you know I think just being in this life I feel successful. You know I used to uh I used to not really appreciate just because I saw so much of where I wanted to be I didn't appreciate where I was at. So anytime I would accomplish something I always just was like what's next? What's next? What's next? And this is the first time in my life where I'm like right now it's good. And yeah we still gonna get further but right now it's good. And I think when I think about success oh man what's been coming up for me the most lately has been just having an abundance of time. And I know that's gonna require me to have an abundance of money. So maybe abundance is success for me but just the luxury of time to be able to just you know when I was in Mexico I was like man I see all these classes I want To take, I see like these other mediums of art that I want to explore. And I need time and I need resources to do that. So I think I will feel that like I like I said, I feel successful right now, but that next level of success I think will come with some more freedom within my time.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:23

I felt that one. I felt that was my turn. Okay, so success for me is an overwhelming uh feeling of joy. Um happiness. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I have to open the door. I'm so sorry. No worries.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:49

No, it's all good. But I I I agree with both of those for sure. And you know, sitting here on screen with both of y'all, um, us being black, being queer, and living open, free lives, like it doesn't get more successful than that. Like, you know, our ancestors probably dreamed of days like this. And it's and it's probably like some of our like living, like, you know, um ancestors and elders that wish they could live this free, you know?

SPEAKER_03 2:13:21

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm actually uh I'm in the middle of reading this book called um it's called The Disillusion. The Disillusion of uh Jay Nick and Jay, and essentially it's based in the um in the uh Jim Crow era, and they Nick flees um flees Tulsa, Oklahoma during the time of the riots, and um he moves to New York City with his family and uh he meets Jick. And during the beginning of the book, Nick's dad is telling him, like, you know, you can't be a writer because you are not a good writer, is what he tells him. But really, what it is is he doesn't want him to be a writer because his dad, as a writer, has been very open, very honest, talking about racism in Oklahoma, talking about how horrible it's been, and talking about all the uh lynchings and things like that that has happened in Oklahoma. And he thinks the best way to have him not follow in his footsteps uh is to just tell him how horrible he is as a writer. And when you think about just living openly and being open and being um being out and proud, you know, and our thinking about our ancestors, you're correct. Like, you know, they probably want us to do the opposite because how much hurt and pain that could come up for us being us uh in today's society.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:04

Well, you know, I just missed the last one minute of that, but no worries. But I know it was very, very good. I know it was very good. Speaking of Jim Crow, y'all need to read this. Sorry, not to give you another book, but oh I seen that somewhere, yeah. Yeah, you got you gotta read this, okay?

SPEAKER_03 2:15:23

Who does it buy? Because I'll write it down right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:26

Yeah, this is Michael Harriet. So um this this one, easy read, really easy, and the way he writes is just um like he's talking to his homeboy.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:39

If you so that you get my drift, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:43

So yeah, but yes, sorry. Uh success to me looks like overwhelming joy, waking up every day in ease, knowing that abundance comes to me effortlessly, that I'm limitless no matter what happens. I wake up and I'm respected through and through. I am powerful and I can walk through and make anything happen. I can do anything. Those are my words every single day. I say them out loud, I say them in the mirror. If people are around, they think I'm crazy. And um, but those are the words that I say out loud. Those are my affirming words, and that's what success looks like to me. Because when you truly feel that in your soul, the monetary abundance is it just comes to you, the prosperity lands in your lap, and the opportunity is overflowing.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:31

So I feel all of that. Yes, that means amen.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:38

And amen. And just whatever y'all want to call it, y'all. Stop speaking with me, Dana. Damn.

unknown 2:16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:53

So that's what that was the answer to that question, y'all.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:58

Amazing. I love that. Um, I again thank you both for coming today and hanging out and doing this live with me. Uh, and I'm very thankful to have found you, Ryan, um, who I hope you know from now on, I will be will be having some conversations because I have I truly believe that um it was for a reason that I scrolled upon your content and um and just you know, I I appreciate just straightforward honesty, bluntness, and just you know, that get your shit together. Because I also that's how my mom is. So it might be it, it may be a little trauma beers, a little trauma there, but I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:44

I'm sorry, boo. My my my case is that that's the tone all the time. I'm so sorry.

Plugs Final Thanks And Goodbye

SPEAKER_03 2:17:52

Um, and you too, Mike. I appreciate all that you do. I tell you this all the time. Um, and before we get out of here, please uh share with the folks if you have anything coming up that you want to share, uh, which we'll also make sure to put in the uh description box once this releases as an audio episode. Um, anything coming up, do your shameless plugs. This is the time to do it. Share with the folks whoever wants to go first.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:20

Oh, don't do that away.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:25

All right, y'all. First of all, thank you, Dana, and thank you, Hella Cheese Make podcast, for having me on. This was an amazing experience. My name is Ryan. I'm an artist for artist, and I'm the founder of the gag or get a grip movement. Uh, what you can look forward to are workshops, seminars, webinars, TED talks, books. You can look forward to my fine ass being on the internet, doing more things. And uh most importantly, you can look forward to me supporting creative people who have creative brains who need to get their scatteredness together. Uh, you can find me everywhere at she's ryan. That's s-h-e-s-r-y-a-n, and she's ryan.com.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:13

Yes, yes. Um, you could find me at just Mike Brown on all social media, the Art of Letting Go podcast on all social media, wherever Mike Browns are sold. Um if you are looking for consulting, music, if you want somebody to create with, um, I am offering one-on-one creative sessions with people. You really don't need me for it, but when you're feeling blocked and all that stuff, I'll be that person too.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:42

Like we need you.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:44

And you know what? I I know that I can definitely I have helped many people with that, but also I really be letting people know like you don't need me for this shit. But if you do feel like it, I will help you get through that block. Um, also, yeah, podcast production. Uh, I'm also working on my own, I'm working on a different podcast. Uh, it's called Mike Does Things, and it is going to be me with other creatives uh going into their worlds and creating with them and having conversations with them about creativity. So that should be later, later this year, maybe like in the fall. Um, but yeah, yeah, a lot of exciting creative things coming up. Just tap in with me. And thank you again, Dana, for having me. Um, I've really been appreciating being on this journey with you and seeing you get to a hundred episodes, seeing you with the co-host, seeing you by yourself. This has been a dope ride. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:45

Thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you both. Um and you know where to find us at Hella Cheese May Podcast. Uh, you can find follow us at Hella Cheese May Pod on Instagram, Hella Cheese Made Podcast on TikTok, and Hella Cheese May Podcast on YouTube. Uh, I appreciate the folks that came, listen for a little bit, left, the people that stayed. Um, I appreciate you all. Thank you again. Uh, and a hundred episodes later, I'm excited to see where we go from here. And um I am just more and more and more and more and more excited as I just continue to push things forward. So uh we will see you all next time. And if you need some water, go ahead and drink your water so your throat don't get dry and make sure you're moisturizing all your skin and doing all your things, honey. And it's warm outside. Um, and I also used to have a conversation with y'all at the end of the show because you San Diegans left the Texan driving. Y'all have been driving me nuts lately. Nuts. Just just driving me crazy. And if you ever need to have if you got some questions and you need to have a conversation, please reach out. And I've also told y'all to respectfully comment below. Uh, if you want to have a conversation about what we're talking about, what we got going on, please do that. Um but I love you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. We'll see you next time.

unknown 2:22:18

Bye.