Queer Art, Vampires & Creative Process ft. Hail

Welcome back to another episode of the Hella Chisme Podcast.

In this episode of Hella Chisme, Dana sits down with artist Hail, also known as icametosin, for a conversation about queer art, body positivity, vampire aesthetics, creative process, and what it means to build a visual world rooted in representation.

Kicking off during Women’s History Month and International Women’s Day, this episode opens with a reflection on women shaping culture, community, and sustainable change before moving into a rich artist spotlight conversation centered on creativity, identity, and artistic evolution.

Hail shares how his journey as an artist began, from early creative influences and band merch design to building his signature style through digital illustration, dark aesthetics, queer representation, and bara-inspired artwork. Together, Dana and Hell talk about vampires, Anne Rice, Interview with the Vampire, queer desire in horror, body positivity, and the importance of showing Black and brown bodies, bigger bodies, and different forms of beauty in art.

The conversation also dives into artistic process, commissions, entrepreneurship, social media burnout, algorithm struggles, and the reality of being an independent creative trying to grow a brand while still making meaningful work. Hell also shares more about preparing for his first Artist Alley at C2E2 and why getting his work in front of new audiences matters.

This episode is for anyone who loves queer art, dark fantasy, vampires, artist interviews, creative entrepreneurship, and conversations about representation, identity, and building a creative life on your own terms.

Follow Hail: 

https://www.instagram.com/icametosin/

https://www.instagram.com/hailsvoid/

Support Hail:

https://gofund.me/4f91591a1

Topics include: queer art, body positivity, vampires, dark art, bara art, digital illustration, Black and brown representation, artist process, creative entrepreneurship, social media for artists, C2E2, and independent queer creatives.

LINK: https://linktr.ee/hellachismepodcast

Transcript

Women’s History Month Message

SPEAKER_00 0:00

In March, we recognize Women's History Month, a time to honor the contributions, leadership, resilience, and the impact of women across generations. And within this month, we celebrate International Women's Day, a global reminder that women aren't just a part of history, they actively are shaping the future. The 2026 theme is Leading the Change, Women Shaping a Sustainable Future. This calls attention to the women who are rebuilding systems, whether it be environmental, economic, or even social. This is to create something more equitable and lasting for generations to come. From boardrooms to classrooms, from art studios to community organizing spaces, from entrepreneurs building brands to mothers building legacies. Women are leading the change. At the Hello Choose May Podcast, we recognize that women, when they speak, culture shifts. When women create, movements grow. When women lead, sustainability becomes more than environmental. It becomes emotional, economic, and communal. This month, we celebrate the women who've paved the way, the women building right now, and the young girls watching and preparing to take up space. Support women-owned businesses, amplify women's creatives, advocate for equity, listen deeply, because honoring women isn't just seasonal, it's structural. Happy International Women's Day, Happy Women's History Month. Let's make sure to celebrate and let's continue leading the change together. Alright y'all, quick pause. If you've been watching, listening, vibing, and you're not subscribed yet, that suspicious behavior is given sus. Go ahead and subscribe to the Hella Cheese May Podcast on YouTube. That's at Hella Cheese May Podcast. Follow us on Instagram at HellaChees Maypod. And yes, we're on TikTok too. You can follow us at Hella Cheese May. And to provide professional gym scrolls, if you scroll for 52 minutes straight but can't hit follow, be serious. The algorithm is already fighting us. Don't join it. Leave a comment on this episode, tell us what you think, drop your favorite moment, argue with me respectfully. The comments help more than you know. And wherever you're listening, whether that's Apple, Spotify, wherever, make sure you subscribe there too. Don't just consume the cheese milk. Participate in it, girlfriend. Help us beat the algorithm before it decides we don't exist. Subscribe, follow, comment, share, girl. You know, being a part of this community, just to let you know, it's fun over here because we're building something and we're building something beautiful. Make sure to be a part of the money. So I'm excited for today's guest. Um Hell is uh an artist that I found on Instagram, also known as I Came to Sin on Instagram. So we'll talk about his social medias and things on later in the episode. But I want to welcome Hell to the Hella Cheese Me podcast show. Welcome our guest. And we are going to uh bring him into the Hella Cheese May community and uh talk about all the things today. Welcome, welcome, Hell, to uh the Hella Cheese May podcast show. Uh usually we had usually we will have our little hand claps, so we'll still do a round of applause for welcoming you on. Um, how are you doing? How are you feeling on this wonderful Friday afternoon?

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Uh I'm good. Just uh my usual waking up, handling things and trying to dive into some art and create some new stuff, especially getting ready for this uh Comic Con uh show that I'm gonna be going to at the end of next month.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Nice. Where is it uh located out?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Uh it's gonna be in Chicago at the McCormick Place Convention Center. Um uh event is called C2E2. Nice, nice like a whole like you know, like comic book convention, anime, all that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Nice. And how is it over a span of a couple of days or what did we do?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, it's a uh three-day event Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Nice, that sounds fun. Well, I mean, and is it's in March, you said?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, March.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Wondering how the weather's gonna be because we know that right now the East Coast is being hit with a lot of uh chilly weather, um, especially with all the snowstorms and all the things happening um uh on that side of the world. But hopefully you got your big jacket ready.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Uh well, moving to Houston, I don't have any of that stuff anymore because uh I'm from Wisconsin originally, but I have been living in Memphis, uh Tennessee for the past like eight years, and then I moved to Houston about a year and a half ago. So I don't got any of my winter clothes in case it's too uh cold up there.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yeah, no, I hear you. I mean, I so it's funny because I live in San Diego. Everybody uh the people who listen know this, but interestingly enough, um, it was just raining here a lot. And um people in San Diego don't know how to drive a rain because obviously, which rightfully so. I won't give them too much because they don't get a lot of rain, so they shouldn't, they probably wouldn't know how to drive a rain often. But being from the Bay Area, it rained there all the time. So I'd be ragging on them about like y'all need to just drive. The rain's gonna keep falling, it's gonna keep coming.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Just you know, that's that's what I noticed here. Like, I don't drive here, but uh seeing like being in like Lyfts and Ubers and stuff, uh Houston, people do they don't know how to drive. It didn't kind of like weather that happens down here. In my brain, I'm like, you know, when I was like 16, 17, and having to drive in weather, like they made us drive in like several feet of snow. You guys have like flush here and you're freaking out, shutting down the whole city. But absolutely don't know how to deal with this type of stuff when it does come because it doesn't happen often.

Origin Story And Early Influences

SPEAKER_00 8:06

No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you, I hear you. Um, well, I want to talk a little bit about you as an artist. Uh, get to know you a little bit, and um, we have a full I have some things that we're gonna get into, so I'm excited. But let's just um tell us a little bit about the beginning, how you started as an artist. Um, and then I know you mentioned growing up in Wisconsin and going getting to Texas. Let's talk a little bit about uh that journey for you.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Um, art for me started as young as I was able to hold like a pencil. My mom is an artist. Um my grandfather loosely played like the guitar. And so there was like creative like forces around me all the time. Um getting into I guess this, I guess we could start with like the digital world and whatnot. Um, I think I was like 15, 14, 15 years old. Uh that was back when you know Myspace and all that stuff was just getting started. Um I was also at that time in a band. Um because of the band and meeting other local uh bands and you know other bands throughout the US and stuff, they would um start coming to me because I was designing my bands, like merchandise, our CD covers, you know, any graphics for our MySpace and stuff. Um that slowly built up like a reputation for me, and people were coming to me to get their you know MySpace layouts designed, getting their merch made up, you know, stuff like that. Um that's what really got me into doing like art, like seriously, both like traditional and uh digital methods and whatnot. Um when I got into it, I was like, oh, this is cool. So I can design merch for people, I can design you know album covers, all that type of stuff. Um it wasn't until I was about I want to say like my early 20s, mid-20s, um someone I was dating at the time that they introduced me to the bara um art style. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but it's the uh Japanese form of like you know, those big muscular, beefy, chubby looking type of guys, and you know, kind of sexual and whatnot. Um when I saw that I was like, oh, that's cool, like let me jump into that. That looks like fun to draw. Um what I was really noticing was there was like a lack of uh representation black and brown bodies, you know, people of color. And I was like, okay, this is something I could just fill, you know, draw my people, you know, give some representation. Um and I think when I think it was I want to say the exact age was around like twenty-three, twenty-two. Uh I went full force. That's when I created I Came to Sin. I got on Tumblr, MySpace, like all that stuff, and I just started just drawing, creating art. And kind of just been doing that ever since then. Um I still do other types of art outside of I Came to Sin. I go by another art uh moniker by the name of uh Hail's Void, and that's where all of my stuff that's not like uh male or portrait centered, that's where I do all my other types of art and stuff. A lot of that stuff is more focused on like nostalgia, uh pop culture, uh just like mending these ideas that I have for things that I'm interested in. But um, yeah, with my art and everything, yeah, I just it started off as this one thing and then evolved into I Can't Descend. And I've just been kind of doing that ever since then. Uh trying to get the name out there, trying to get in front of new eyes and stuff so that people can see, you know, what it is I'm doing and what I can bring to the table and everything. Um that journey has uh given me like a lot of opportunities to talk to a bunch of different people, get to know a lot of different people, a lot of the people who commissioned me and everything. Uh I end up becoming friends with some of them, and it just awarded me and benefited me this uh opportunity to just get to know people and make new friendships and stuff. But um, yeah, just uh still doing this.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, I mean, and obviously you're doing a very good job at it. You know, I think one of the things that attracted me to your art is yes, my obsession with vampires, but also my uh my I just love how cool and ethereal and methodical some of the work is, and um also the representation of uh the queer community and um and then the the diversity of different body types that you draw, because it's not often represented, especially in the art well in the art world. Um, and I think that's what makes you uh stand out, and that's what makes it really, really cool uh as far as I'm concerned. I do think that um one of the other things that I thought was really cool is I mean a lot of your drawings of Duran Bernard. I don't know if you're actually friends with Duran, but I think it's really cool a lot. He he himself is super dramatic and ethereal and just like so he always plays with how his presence is on stage. So I thought that uh some of those uh drawings and um yeah, I don't know that man, I love his music, love what he brings to the table, the representation and everything.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Um he the first drawing that I did of him, um he was very kind, very appreciative, said he really loved it. You know, he posted it all over his social medias and stuff, and I was like, oh this is cool. Like, but uh yeah, like I don't know him, but yeah, you know, I'm I'm a fan of his and everything that he's doing and whatnot. And I drew him that second time because I was like, oh dude, like he just won. So I want to, you know, show praise and thanks to him and everything. So yeah, now he's very, very, uh, very cool.

Representation And Dark Aesthetic

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Yeah, that's dope. So you talked a little bit about um the showing up and uh uh for the uh bringing the queer community to the forefront in your work and how in some of your other work you do focus on a little bit more about pop culture. Tell me a little bit about um in that moment of trying to make sure that we were representing for the community and making sure bringing it to the forefront. What exactly was your uh thought? Was it just like I want to do it in this medium that I'm currently that I think is really cool? Or was it just like I just want to draw this and if people like it, they like it?

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Uh I think it might be an amalgamation of different things. Um drawing things because I think it looks cool, and hopefully other people are digging it. Um but then also pulling a lot of that influence from, as you can see in a lot of my work, there's that little sometimes it's very loud, sometimes it's very subtle, that dark undertone, kind of otherworldly, supernaturally kind of vibe. Um that kind of lens I've always viewed the world in, and I've always been fascinated by this stuff. Uh, do I believe in a lot of these different things? No, a lot of things people get twisted with um back in the day when I was designing like merchandise for bands, and I translated into just doing portrait work of people and whatnot. They're like, oh, this you know, this dark Satan shit. Like, you know, it's nothing to do with that. I just like the dark aesthetic and imagery that comes along with uh a lot of the other worldly supernatural kind of uh themes of stuff. Yeah, um but yeah, for me it was just like I'm gonna create this thing because visually this is what it looks cool to me, and hopefully other people gravitate towards it and whatnot. Yeah. Um but yeah, it was just uh pulling a lot of influence from like movies, TV shows, music, uh other artist moments in my life that I've dealt with and whatnot, and just kind of putting it all into the art and just like, hey, if you like it, come in, you know, check it out.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can feel that. I definitely can see like some of the work can be very moody. Um, but that's art, right? You know, I've uh going to art school and also just as the years have gone by and thinking about the different things that I connect with and that I like or enjoy, um it's always I always find it interesting the artists that put themselves and what they feel and what they want to create forward and how successful they become in doing that, versus and then artists who um who try to gear towards the audience and how that works for them. And and not to say that they're not successful, but I also think um when we have more of a feeling behind the work that we're doing, it become it exudes through the work that we're doing. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, yeah. Uh definitely when it comes to like the moods that I'm in and whatnot, um, sometimes it can be really expressed through like what I'm uh drawing and whatnot, especially when it comes to like uh if I'm having some sort of like a depression episode or anxiety or something else that whatever is going on, it uh sometimes will translate through my art or the the theme or idea that I'm going for or whatnot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

So you talked about being a in a band. Uh tell us a little bit about being in a band. I've uh always wanted to play the electric guitar. Not that I've learned how to play it yet, but would love to hear. Uh, what was that like for you? How long uh were you in the band? Uh tell us a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Um like the whole, like I said, the art journey and stuff when I started doing the digital stuff started around the same time um when I joined the band and everything. Uh around that time, I think it was like 15, uh, I was a drummer and I knew some people from schools or schools nearby, or just talking on MySpace to other people. And I just started off with just hanging out with some dudes, and we were just all like jamming music and whatnot. Um, the type of music I played was more of the extreme like metal, death metal type of variety of genre. Um it really just started off just this bunch of you know teens playing instruments and just wanting to get those emotions out and whatnot. Um it was it was a cool journey because it it kind of exploded. Like I said, that was around that that MySpace era. So there was a lot of uh ability to connect with people instantly and book shows and uh the band that I was in, we did a lot of touring throughout the US and whatnot. So um right around like 16, 17, that's when it started to really pick up. And 17 to 18 is when we started to actually like play shows out of out of state in other cities, do little mini tours for the weekend and whatnot. Um that was that I think about it often because it was one of those experiences in my life where it was like one of those like hides that you're trying to chase. Yeah, I feel like ever since then, because I I left and disbanded from them about 26, 27, and that's that's right around the time that I was moving towards uh Tennessee. Um but you know, being almost 40 now, I'm sitting here like and I miss like playing music and you know, every night a new city, new faces, playing music for a bunch of people that showed up to like listen to your music and stuff. Like yeah, that journey um it took me a lot of places. I got to meet a lot of people, made a lot of connections. Uh currently at the moment, I'm not playing anything. I haven't played anything in like five, six years or so. But it is something in the back of my head where I'm like, yeah, I think I might get back into that at some point. But with where my body is at right now with energy that I don't have, um, it's not gonna be to that capacity that I used to have, but definitely want to get back into it.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Well, I mean, it's all about how it's it's a different type of expression, right? It doesn't necessarily have to be in front of people, it doesn't have to be uh going out on tour, but if I'm hearing what I'm hearing you saying, is another way that you want to express yourself to be able to kind of uh to fulfill that other side of expression uh in a different artistic way, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Just uh another creative avenue for me to explore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

No, yeah, I hear that. And um I could uh and I feel that because I even in my day-to-day work, uh this in doing this podcast and creating the spaces that I'm working to create, um, this is how I feel my artistic creative uh expression. And then like other other not too long ago, I just started sketching again. Um because uh I used to design more frequently. I don't like to say I try, I've been trying not to say that I used to be a designer because it's not left me. Um I But I've gotten back into um sketching again. And then hopefully that leads to me sewing and making things again at some point. But you know, as artists and as creatives, it's the world and how you put yourself out there sometimes try to put you in a box and to be and to do one thing, not realizing that there's other different ways to express and to create. And there's other, there's other interests rather than just that one.

Learning New Mediums Without Burning Out

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Uh that's yeah, that that's kind of always been my problem. Um like, you know, drawing and illustration and stuff like that is my, you know, the one way that I mostly express myself. But um music is another way. Um recently getting into like writing and stuff. Um I've learned all these different forms, and every time I come across a new one that interests me, I'm just like, damn, that's like another thing I gotta learn because there's potential there to be able to express my way myself in a way that I have not been able to with other things that I've done and whatnot. But yeah, it's yeah, it can be tiresome sometimes because like every time I see something cool, I'm just like, damn, I want to learn that too. Okay, let me learn how to do this shit. But yeah, oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah. Um, which actually is a good segue. It leads me into my next question. How do you um how do you categorize categorize that or organize that, I should say, in when there's something that you want to learn or you want to develop the art that you're doing, and you need to you need to learn this new element in order to tie it in. How do you organize that so that you're not overly um exuding the energy or you're not tiring yourself out or burning yourself out?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Um honestly, I kind of have an obsessive personality. So, like when I want to learn something, I will tire myself out trying to learn, you know, whatever that thing is, from everything from you know, just watching how other people do it and similar to what I'm like envisioning in my head on how I want to do it. Uh, YouTube videos, TikTok, you know, anything that shows other people and how they're doing it. And then looking at pieces themselves and just kind of like studying, like, I wonder how they did that. Let me experiment with and see if I can reach that same like desired effect and look and whatnot. But um, I guess I wouldn't have uh a piece to offer on how to hire yourself out because like when I when I get into something or I want to learn something, I just go full force and just like all right, this is what what I'm gonna be doing right now and learning how to do, and I'm not gonna stop until I've learned how to do it and whatnot. But yeah.

Discovering Bara And Finding A Lane

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah, yeah. No, I hear you on that. Um, so you also talked about the actual um type of drawing. So you talked about uh you said bara is the actual type of um artwork that you do. Um tell us how you discovered it. Um, and then um any artist that you enjoy that actually does the same type of uh that type of medium.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Um it started with an ex of mine. Uh they introduced me to like the whole like um furry type of art, and then he that's when he introduced the the barra stuff to me. Um that was uh uh my early 20s-ish, mid-20s. Um they like they just introduced it to me, and it was one of those moments where I was like, at first, like the furry stuff, like I was like, this is a little weird. Like the only encounter I've ever had with the the furry like community or you know, whatever was in my teens when one of my friends had told me that her brother was looking at werewolf stuff with that, but it was like they were pregnant, and I was like, wait, what? Like that's but then I started to learn more about it, and I was like, oh shit, the shit's cool. People will be making these like uh what do they call the um the personas and yeah, these identities uh along around that. And then when I saw the bar stuff, I was like, oh cool, there's a bunch of like big, chubby, beefy men that um are being shown in this way that it's not really being shown anywhere else. I was like, this is this is really cool. I want to get into this. But yeah, after he introduced me to that stuff, um my brain just went. It was another example of having obsession. I was just like, oh no, yeah, no, I have to learn how to do this. I have to learn how to you know get all these guys and do all this type of stuff because this is what I want to do. Like, this would this would be fun, this is my lane. But um, but yeah, it was uh next mine showed me it, and ever since then I've just been hooked on the whole art of Bara, whatnot.

Vampires As Queer Myth And Desire

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yeah, yeah. Um, and so on this show we talk about vampires a lot. I have me and so I don't know if you've ever uh me and my brother did an episode about vampires. We did it, we it's a whole thing, and we know that vampires are often portrayed as super seductive and print and imperfect and things like that, um, and hyper-idealized. But I feel like your work and how you portray them makes them um, yes, in the same light, but also super really cool uh and fun uh and the same time. Uh tell me about like um your your thoughts behind it and how you feel when you're creating uh the artwork with the whole vampire aesthetic and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

So I love vampires, vampire anything, vampire media, like I consume it the lore mythology that's like all over the world when it comes to vampires and stuff. Um I I don't know what else to really say, but that I just love vampires. Like uh when someone gives me a chance to sit down and talk about vampires, it gets me going and like and I can't stop and whatnot. But uh what really like piqued my interest was a lot of uh Anne Rice uh writing. Um I remember reading interview with the vampire in high school because he dropped that book in I think the late 70s or whatever. But looking back on it now, I'm like maybe I shouldn't have been reading that at 70 this type of uh stuff or whatever. But like when I read that, that's when I became like uh truly obsessed with the whole idea because I like the way that she was showcasing kind of like those queer undertones when it comes to vampires and whatnot. Uh the the whole idea of like grappling with immortality emotions and feelings and like trying to just cope with the longevity of what your life is now because you're an immortal being and whatnot, and then also the whole aspect of uh blood and everything like that. Um what comes to mind too is also the that opening scene for Blade in the Blood Rave. Yeah, I think about that all the time. I don't know why, but there's this part of me that's like, man, I really want to be in a rave room with blood coming down and whatnot. But um, I don't know, vam vampirism and all of that, the mythology behind it, it's just one of those things that like um I think it's kind of like with people who are obsessed with like superheroes and uh superpowers and stuff. Um I just like the whole idea a being with immense power and you get to live forever, you get to do all these great things, but there's that one hindrance of like, well, you gotta drink a little bit of blood to keep it going, otherwise, you know, XYZ will happen to you or whatever. But uh but yeah, Enrise was that that big jump for me. And then that's when I think as the what was it, mid-2000s, all the way till now, that vampire uh resurgence of media popping in and out. Um it started to fuel more of that for me. So like uh true blood, yeah, vampire diaries, hell, even Twilight. Like, I know people want to like to talk shit about Twilight, but it's one of those guilty pleasures of mine where I'm like, I can watch those movies over and over and over and over and never get tired of it. But um what I see in it and the the stuff that I draw, I try to take from bits and pieces of things that I've seen, but then I try to add like my own, I guess, view on it and whatnot, and the lens that I have for what I think would make a hot vampire and whatnot. Yeah, uh which goes hand in hand with that um what I was saying earlier about uh discovering different avenues of being able to express creative um energy within me. So that's why I've been also working on writing and uh in the form of a novel, but also a comic book. And I've never done any of those things before, so like that is in itself is a learning curve. Um yeah, but it's uh yeah, a lot of that stuff, vampires and stuff has been uh a big thing in my life. Um and like you said, like when you look at some of my work, you can see some of those like vampiric aspects, even stuff that's not meant to be like a vampire drawing. There's certain little things that I'll add in there. I'm like, well, no, it's kind of a little bit. There's a little bit of it in there, but not you know, not fully or whatever. But yeah, I love vampires, everything vampires, especially with uh the uh the new interview with the vampire TV series. Um and then everything that they've done with um the changes, because I'm I'm a big fan of the books. I've read all I think it's 15 books. Oh my god. So when they did all the changes with like you know, making Louie Black, Claudia Black, uh changing some of the different um aspects from the books to the show, like everything is just perfect.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

I wish other people who are making TV shows and movies and stuff in Hollywood, they would take notes from like this is how you do an interpretation from uh you know a book to uh you know live media type of thing or whatever. But yeah, interview the vampire. I'm so excited for season three. Can't wait to uh to see what we're gonna get into with that, especially with Lestat, because I just love a good crash out queen.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yes, Lestat is a crash out queen, and the actor that plays him is doing a fantastic job with his character. Oh, yeah, Sam Reed.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Sam Reed is very like for me, even with all the changes they've done, watching him perform and do the whole thing, it makes me feel like damn, it's like Lestat was just ripped from the books, put on Tel show, whatnot, and just like he's excellent. And same with Jacob Anderson, like yeah, the portrayal of Louie is just like yeah, and it also helps too that that man is fine as hell.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

So yeah, yeah. And I I if you would have told me that he would have came from Game of Thrones, the character that he paid out in Game of Thrones, to be in on a uh full-time show, uh like interview with the vampire, I would have never uh never guessed that see like with with uh Jacob Anderson.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I my first memory of him was from this TV show um called Skins. You ever see that one? Mm-mm. Um, it was like the British version before Euphoria became a thing. That that was their euphoria. Like they did that uh so euphoria could come up, you know, come into light. But uh I remember seeing him in that, but when I saw him in Game of Thrones, I was like, wait, he was in I did not see that happening. Okay, cool. And then when they started doing the rollout for Interview with the Vampire, and I saw him in it, I was like, whoa, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like okay, this is cool, it's cool. I'm listening to this, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I can't wait for season three, especially with Lestat, his crashing out. Um, I'm hoping they're gonna finally at some point, if they're following the books or whatever, give us a little more teaser into uh the the woman who's gonna be playing Akasha because that's yeah, you know, with Aliyah doing her portrayal, and it was perfect, everything was amazing about that. Um, it's gonna be cool to see someone else step into those shoes and see what they're gonna deliver with that.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. And I love um I I do I love that show. I think it's really, really dope. And I I too am curious to see where is it gonna go uh in this next season. Um, I think I have a couple of uh we finished episode um season two. Um, so I'm excited to see where we're about to go from here with the show because it is definitely amazing, especially like you know, all of the years like you've talked about already Twilight, um, true blood, uh vampire diaries. And now with us, have we had like I would say about three or four years of a break of vampire series and uh shows and movies, and then we came, they hit us with interview with the vampire. So they're doing a great job of making up for the time loss on a very, very good uh vampire series and story.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

And honestly, like when it comes to the vampire mutter, I'll like I'll consume anything and everything is good. Like uh, but there's something like I said about Anne Rice and her vampires that just it it's just like this blueprint for me now when I think about vampires. I'm like, well, her vampires, that's how I want it done. Like, yeah, the whole emotional aspect and and dealing with your feelings and shit, and just like and on top of that, you're stupid powerful, like just uh just such a good mesh of everything. And like I said, with those changes that they've done to the show, it just adds on top of it that makes it just perfect. But uh don't even start it. Like I can't wait to see season three.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Um, so let's switch gears a little bit and talk about um the medium that you uh create in. So uh we talked about you working uh your work in the uh bara, but how do you um what's your um do you use digital illustration? What medium do you usually uh create in? I see the paint and the paint but just behind you, so but uh what do you prefer and what do you usually create in? I prefer both.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Um I've gotten that question a few times from other people. Uh primarily it is digital because it's a little more accessible and easier to just produce something. But there's uh a lot of pros to digital or traditional mediums and whatnot. Um I like the aspect of digital because it's just all in one hand, like you can create whatever you want. It's all right there in your hand. Doing something traditional, and you're just like, okay, now I gotta figure out what am I gonna use. Am I gonna use paint? Am I gonna use markers? Am I gonna use you know, whatever? And yeah, uh what am I gonna do it on? Is it gonna be canvas? Is it gonna be paper, you know, whatever? Um I like both. Um for a while I was doing uh sketches, you know, the sketchbook, and then I would scan that into the computer, and then I would uh ink it, you know, draw over it in uh digital medium and Photoshop and whatnot. But um I don't know, like I said, it's it's the both of those things. Um I like them both. Yeah, there's certain times that certain moods or feelings that'll come across that I'm like, all right, this piece needs to be something that I need to draw like on paper, and this will be what I want to do, versus other times I'm like, okay, this drawing I could do on the uh on the iPad or whatever and get out what I want to make. But yeah, yeah, I enjoy both.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

That's cool. I mean, I envy that. I have not, I've thought about taking a digital illustration class. Um, I have not yet. But by the time I was done with uh fashion school and everything, I was literally at that mark where I could have started taking it, but didn't. Um, but I envy, I envy everybody who can uh take their work and then go and put it in a digital form and still create. Um there's I even follow some folks on TikTok. They go live and that's all they do on their live all day long. Um it's a skill and uh it's a very cool skill to have for sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yeah, like that uh that painting back there. Um like I like painting too. Painting's one of those mediums too that I'm still I I'm still learning it. But um, like I said, with my obsessiveness and of learning something, when I started painting, like I can't stop. Like there's no like how they say, like, you know, just walk away, you know, and then come back to it. When I started painting, I'm like, no, I gotta finish this, or I gotta just focus on this and do this as long as I can until I cannot touch it anymore. But there's something in it that I guess kind of each thing uh brings a certain feeling or whatnot. Like when I'm doing paintings, it makes me feel very like uh like an artist, if that makes sense. Where I'm just like, oh man, like I I feel like you know, the old time dudes and stuff that were like painting big murals and stuff and whatnot. But the same thing with like digital, like uh it feels very powerful to have like an iPad and like I can create whatever I want, I can draw and do whatever I want, like it's all right here in my hands. But yeah, each like I said, each thing has its pros, and um it just each thing is enjoyable for me. So like every time I see a new medium or something uh to try to get into, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get into that.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you think about like uh from like your earliest work and you think about now, um what was some of the shifts for you and what would you say how um how your art and how the your art identity has evolved over uh over time?

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Um when it comes to like the I guess the male-centered illustrations that I do, when I started off, like there was a big thing that I was doing with uh the white eyes and no uh visible pupil or anything like that. Um I was just pulling from that idea of just like some powerful being, and you know how they portray that in like cartoons, anime, or whatever. Uh someone with like just one colored eye, and like that usually a symbolism for power or some sort of uh ability or something like that. Um for a while I was doing that, and a lot of my recent works I've kind of strayed away from it, but I've done it in a different way versus just a big white spot in their eye or whatever. Yeah, um I don't know for me it was just uh I think the I've definitely gotten better because I've been doing this series uh on Instagram where I'll revisit old drawings and I'll redraw it to see you know where I'm at right now. Um and I can see that like I've gotten a lot more detailed, um a lot more clarity in some of my stuff, better understanding of shit like that. That was a little wonky, like I don't know why I drew it like that. But yeah, I could definitely see the the the transition in uh I guess clarity um visualize like the thing that I'm seeing in my head and seeing that okay, yeah, I did get it out of my head, I did you know put it onto the campus and whatnot. Um I guess the other big change is I feel like a lot of my stuff now versus like 10 years ago. Um I feel like there's more I don't know for me, it feels like I could see more emotion and and feeling and like thought was put into the thing that I made and whatnot versus some of my old drawings. So it's like I'm just drawing a half-maked dude just to draw them, but versus now I'm like, yeah, it is kind of sexy and a little suggestive, but like uh there's aspect to it, like pay attention, look at it. You can kind of see some storytelling going on and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool, amazing. And you can definitely tell, which we'll get into some of that later when we kind of do our little, I mean, I don't know if I should call it virtual art gallery, but it's fine. We'll call it whatever we want. We'll we'll do whatever we want with it. Um, we're going to let's take a little break and we'll come right back and we'll jump back into the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

All right.

Commission Process From Sketch To Polish

SPEAKER_00 43:53

All right, bye. And we are back. Um, so we've talked a lot about um just you as an artist, uh, some of the work that you do, things that inspire you. Um, let's talk about like process. Uh I think as artists and as creatives, um sometimes, you know, process can be however we decided to be. I know that I'm like super, I'm a stickular about time frames, I'm a stickular about um, you know, just like how it was like, oh, I have an outline for the show. But that's just how that's just me and also my human resource brain, because I feel like I always have to be in organized and I always have to have like an outline and things jotted down or written down. That's just that's me and my um my ability of always wanting to be in control. But what does the process usually look like for you when it comes to creating an art piece or um or starting a submission for a client or uh working with a client in general? What does that always look like for you as far as process goes? Um hold on, I'm sorry, one second.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Stop. Stop. I'm sorry, she is getting into stuff she shouldn't be. But um for me, that process is um you know, usually talking with the person, like they have an idea uh or some sort of theme or something they're trying to go for. I try to decipher that. Like, what is it that they're trying to visualize? Because they're coming to me, they obviously like the artwork that I do. So I want to see if they have some idea in their mind that they're like, oh, this idea would be cool if he did this. So I'm trying to figure out, you know, what they're trying to go for. Usually it starts with like, you know, conversation, talking about the piece, whatever it is that they want. Um then it goes into the actual creative mode. For me, my longest process is sketching because for me, I like to sit down and try to come up with the idea and like the the skeletons of everything. Then once I have the skeleton of it, then I know where I need to go forward. Um but the sketch process for me just takes forever because like that's my um what's the word? Uh I'm picking through and yeah, trying to figure out the elements that I want, what I don't want, uh what I'm seeing in my head, if I can actually visualize it out on the canvas and whatnot. But yeah, for me, it's just um you know, talking with the person, trying to figure out what they want, if I'm doing uh commission work and whatnot, and then just going into the process of sketching and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Um you want like a detailed breakdown of like yeah, if you if you want to share just a little bit of tidbits of that, that sounds good to me. I think it I think it also just helps um just talking through like what that process looks like for for you. And then I, you know, people listening, I think it gives them some context when working with other artists, or if they ever reach out for um for commissions just to kind of understand the every artist and every other every person that's creating something is different. Um, and it does take time, you know. And like for instance, I had somebody reach out to me who wanted me to make them a denim skirt. They didn't want just like a regular denim skirt, they wanted a denim skirt, it had asymmetrical uh cut, they wanted raw edges, they wanted this type of stitching, you know, they want it fully detailed, but I'm like, okay, I can do that, but I need this amount of time to first, I need to sketch it out, draw what it's gonna look like, then I need to uh create the pattern that goes along with that, and then I need your measurements so then I can make sure that it fits you correctly. And then um once we get all of that, then I need to actually make it, and then I need some time just in case I make some mistakes and fuck it up.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

That's that's pretty much the same when it comes to for me, I don't know how other artists are, but for me it's it's kind of the same thing where um after we've discussed, you know, whatever the project is, then like that's the the creation of the project now. Like now I'm sketching it, and sketching it's gonna take like a while because I'm going through several different sketches and trying to come up with the the solid piece of the idea. Then you get into like for me, my next process is usually uh inking the piece. So I go through and black line work, you know, get the the bones and everything detailed out, and then that's when I go into coloring. I think coloring too is kind of the next longest process for me because now I'm trying to figure out visually like how am I gonna make this all look good together. You know, if there's like a background, if there's a a big old theme that I'm drawing to it all, like how um lighting is gonna work, and that's another thing too, because like you know, I'm creating something from nothing. So like I have to make this all happen and make it look all good and cohesive and everything. So for me, yeah, like it's just uh talking stage, getting into the creation stage, so you know, sketching, then getting into the inking, then getting into the coloring, and then like the final step for me usually is just uh like polishing and adding any of the extra little tiny details or yeah um color editing and stuff like that. But yeah, there are some people that you do get, whether you know you're an artist or uh someone who makes clothing and whatnot, that you'll get those people here and there that are like well, you know, you were paid yesterday, it should have been done in a day. It's like no, this is gonna take a little bit of time to to flesh out and get you know made and everything. And then there's those super understanding commissioners who are like look, you're creative, you're doing what you need to do, just go ahead and do what you need to do. Like, yeah, I'm not gonna bother you. And my favorites, yeah.

Consistency Pressure And Fast Consumer Culture

SPEAKER_00 50:22

No, I you know, I've already looked your spot for the one that I've already reached out for is on that wall. When they get here, it'll be here. Right. And I know, and I and you know, I and I get it, right? Like, I also we can even take it out of the um the space of talking about art and doing and commissions, even when it comes to um, you know, we can have a conversation about what consistency looks like and what that means to different people. Um, I've I did a um a live episode with uh Ryan out loud and my and Mike, who's on um the Art of Letting Go podcast. And we talked, we we touched on what cons the consistency conversation, but um we didn't really dive into it. But my reason of bringing that up is consistency looks different for everybody, everybody's process is different. Um, I think when earlier you talked about like kind of uh chasing after that high of um being out there meeting different people and um choring and things like that. And I think when we think about today in uh consumerism and how much people want something new on a constant, um we have to also think that there are people who are absolutely who can't who want to create and who do create, but are absolutely not looking to try and create for those people who consistently need to feel something new and experience something different all the time. Um that's not fair to artists, that's not fair to creatives, that's not fair, that's not a fair uh box to put us in, um, especially when we're trying to create something thoughtful and something that's intentional that people will enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

I think the the people who come to us as creatives to get something made or you know, whatever, um they don't realize, especially with how today everything is so fast and consumerism and all that stuff, like everything is just kind of instant for you that when you come to someone uh with some sort of artistry and skill that you're trying to acquire, they they don't take into account like this isn't something you just order on Amazon and you're getting it the next day. Like this is a creative artistic process that's gonna take some time, you know, effort and energy to get into. And I think what they also don't realize too is that today with artists and people who are creative, like there's the social media aspect of it all. Right. Also trying to run your whole brand and run your pages and and focus on like numbers and algorithms and trying to come back with that shit sometimes too. And um, the whole process of like, you know, when you are your own brand, you know, yes, you are working on this thing for a person, but you are one person also having to take care of this, your social media working on new, like for me, new art that I gotta put out and stuff like that. My social medias keep going and whatnot. So, like I don't think they don't take into account most of the time that like we are just one person most of the time, and like it's it there's a lot more behind the scenes that happens on top of you being your own person and your own life and everything else that goes on with it. So, like you gotta take it, um you gotta come in into this thing and realize like they are just one person and they are not. So I gotta have some praise.

The Artist As Entrepreneur Every Day

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Yeah, and um you're touching on something that I uh that is actually perfect for the next segue because I think that as entrepreneurs, um we I think the the idea is that as an artist, they're they I don't think people really realize the entrepreneurial shift that's behind that because you do have to run all of your businesses and you do have to run all of that shit. And a lot of that is a lot of fucking work on its own. So um talk a little bit about let's dive a little bit deeper into that because I think it's important to put that out there, you know. First of all, what are all the things that you're working on? And then let's then talk about then on top of that, then the commissions that come in for you, what is that like and how do you keep track of all of it?

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Uh um honestly, every day I'm working on like several different projects for different things. Like, for example, right now I'm working on the new shop layout and design for my online shop. I am working on redesigning my logo. I am working on uh creating product and stuff right now for the shop. On top of that, creating product for the um on top of that, working on other illustrations so that way I can keep the social media flow going and whatnot, and keeping eyes on me and everything. Um working on people's commissions and whatnot. Uh for me, like the organization behind it all is like I know for you you said you like to have like control and like you know this is this for me, it's just sporadic and chaotic because that's what works for me. Like especially like when I'm like in a I mean you can kind of see from my space right here, like it's just chaos. But for me that works when I have it like too organized, it starts to feel um it takes me out of that that creative like mindset and element. Now I'm like this is work, or this is like uh some sort of like brick and mortar desk job and whatnot. I mean that chaos because it it I don't know it envelops me in this like creative level where it's like okay, I know I know where everything is, I know how this all works. So this is gonna work for me. But for me, like it especially when it comes to like commissions or uh other projects or other things that I have to do, I try to find the best way I can to divide myself amongst all of those things every single day. So like every single day, like I'm I'm usually creating or working on several different things at once. So like uh there'll be like one, let's say if I'm working on one commission, I'll stop that for like a few minutes, I'll go to work on another one, or I'll jump on the computer and work on some of the products and stuff that I'm making. And it just that's kind of like what my process and flow is like every day, just tackling it all and just trying to give a little bit of myself each time to each of those things, especially with uh all that I mentioned on top of working on my comic book, working on the the novel that I'm writing, and just trying to find the best way to divide myself amongst it all.

Instagram Reach Problems And Shadowbans

SPEAKER_00 57:37

Yeah, and I mean the I think on top of all of that, you've also mentioned social media. And in a world where social media, if you don't got it, it's you're not promoting yourself. Uh, how has that felt for you trying to just doing that, being an artist and doing your best to make sure to keep to hit that algorithm? I know that you know I've had my own challenges. I actually just had my meeting with my um my uh my um podcast producer who helps me with uh all the visual aspects of the show and stuff. Um and I was just like, I've been doing we've been doing this for almost three years. It'll be three years this um summer, and I'm just now hitting the TikTok algorithm. And I was like, it's it took it took two and almost two and a half years for me to get to the place where I'm actually starting to get some natural likes without having to press the promo button or without having to spend money on marketing, um, where I'm just now starting to hit the algorithm. So tell what what has been your experience with uh with that and how's that been for you?

SPEAKER_01 58:55

Um it's been hell to be honest. Uh a lot of my traffic or flow comes from Instagram, and you know, with the algorithm and stuff like that, it feels like it's always like against me instead of working with me. Um I know recently I'm pretty sure I'm shadow banned on Instagram. Um so like my reach in the numbers that I was doing is not what I'm currently doing. I'm used to like uh average-wise, numbers-wise, um each post getting like several hundred likes, my story is getting several hundred views, versus now like if I'm lucky if I can break like 50 hundred likes, maybe 20 videos. So I'm like, I know it's not me. Like I know they're they're they're doing whatever they do that doesn't push my content out there anymore. Right. Um I've had run into the issue with some of my content being like flagged and whatnot, but the thing is, like I purposely draw in a way that I'm not going too far outside of their guidelines or restrictions and whatnot. So I'm like, I know it's not me, like I'm not showing like full-on nude illustrations and whatnot. And it just puzzles me because I look at other accounts and stuff, especially ones who are popular, I'm just like, how are they getting away with this? But when I do it, it's you know it's a problem. But for me, yeah, it's just it's been a uh a constant battle of trying to uh find a way that can work with their algorithm, whatever whatever social media that I'm using. Um like yeah, with like Instagram, it's just been I'm still trying to figure it out. Like I honestly don't know. Um, and I think a lot of it now too is that people are looking for that quick um you know, 10-second video that they can watch and whatnot. Yeah, so I've been trying to work on that too, making more like process videos and uh trying to uh build up the the nerve to make like videos involving my face into it and you know what I create and what I do and whatnot. But the algorithm is a bitch and trying to combat with it is just it's been very frustrating because I'm like I want to do this naturally and have people gravitate towards me. I don't want to have to purchase any sort of promotional you know things or whatever. Um I just want it to happen natural right now. Um I've been for a while I was like daily posting three to four new illustrations every single day. And I got burnt out from it. I was just like, I can't I can't do this, I cannot do this, like this is uh so I've been what I've been finding is that if I take a little break, like a few days to maybe a week, and then go and post stuff, it seems like the reach that I can get is a little bit more now. Yeah, yeah. If I it but it was just crazy because they tell you to consistently post, and right they you know do uh two to three posts per day. And right when I do that, my numbers it don't match up. But when I space it out and I'm like I take a week off and then I come back and post a bunch of new stuff, then the numbers kind of kind of hit and whatnot. But yeah, I'm still trying to find those avenues that to see what's working for other people and whatnot. And I I still I don't know. Yeah, I'm still trying to trying to figure that part out because everything that I'm doing, I feel like damn, like okay, I burnt myself out with trying to create every day, but then I that didn't work. But if I stop, this kind of works, but people are kind of wanting to see you every day, especially to keep you know your brand in their mind and whatnot. You want to keep posting so that way it stays uh that consistent flow. So people are still coming to you and shit. But yeah, I yeah, for me, I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

No, I mean I you know 100% agree and understand and uh in the same boat, like you know, it's it's crazy how much you have to put into it for you to even just hit the algorithm at the right time. Um, I've had a bunch of different training, not trainings, but I've gone sat in on conversations about SEO and shit like that for content creating and stuff. But you know, I think what it boils down to when you're trying to naturally reach an audience, it's just the people are just gonna find you when they find you. Um is something that I'm also learning. Um, but I'm also learning that, like you're saying, there's no secret sauce to this. There's no, there's nothing that we're we're doing, we're not doing. We're doing, I feel like everything we're supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to trying to realize and give myself grades is just to realize like I'm doing all that I can do. I can't like the system and what they're doing and uh how they try to limit what people are seeing and whatnot, because I get consistent messages like, dude, I have not seen any of your posts. Like I'm just not seeing this one. Like, I used to see your stuff all the time, and I'm just like, I don't know. Like, yeah, you just have to manually come to my page and see when I've updated something because now that reach is just it's not getting out there anymore. So yeah, uh, which makes it hard as uh doing this as a full-time thing when you're not getting that reach kind of affecting your pockets and shit. So yeah, um, I've been trying to do what I can to combat that. Um, working on some new things and whatnot that I think could maybe help, but uh those are still kind of in the idea planning stages and whatnot. But yeah, I'm still still trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Yeah, I hear you on that. Um, so let's take uh one more break and then we'll come back and we'll look at some artwork. How does that sound?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Okay, that's cool.

Virtual Gallery And Artwork Breakdown

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

All right, if you've made it this far in this episode and you haven't subscribed yet, that's wild. Go ahead and hit that subscribe button on YouTube, follow us on Instagram, tap in everywhere, channel, because apparently the algorithm only respects consistency and emotional damage. And to my professional doomed scrollers out there, girl, yes, I'm talking to you. If you can scroll for 47 minutes and not press the subscribe button, we can have a full conversation on how you need to go ahead and dedicate yourself to something, girl, because it sounds like you've got some dedication issues. Help us be the algorithm, girl. Like, comment, share, send it to your girlfriends, your your boyfriends, your lady friends, your day then friends. The ones who love the chit chat about obviously but never really wanted to start that podcast. Because I want them in my comment box. Don't just watch a cheese made. Join the cheese made girl. Subscribe, follow, and stay connected, honey, because we building something cute up over here and we want you to be a part of it. And we are back. So I'm excited. Uh, we're gonna talk about some of your work. Um, for the folks that are watching, uh, you'll be able to see the artwork. For the folks that are listening, we'll uh describe what's happening. And then if you go back or go follow him on his social media, you can see some of the work that we're talking about, or go watch it on uh YouTube where I post all the full episodes. Um, but I'm going to share my screen and we're gonna dive into talking about some of the work that you have done. Um, I want to talk about this one first. Uh, it gives very Stargate. I don't remember the actor's name, but I do specifically remember him uh in the show and always thinking, I always loved his definition in his face and used to think he was very handsome. Um, but I don't remember the actor's name, but I do remember the show that he was on. But tell us a little bit of huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Christopher Judge. I know him too.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

Tell us a little bit about uh this piece, um, obviously the inspiration and things behind it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

So outside of vampires, sci-fi is another like big thing that I'm into. Um Starget is one of those uh TV series that I am wildly, wildly obsessed with. Um it's currently not on air, but it's been going for almost like 20 plus years of lore and stuff from the TV series. But um Christopher Judge, um, this particular character, Teal, um, which is for obvious reasons, like I found him attractive, like this you know, big brooded man, and like the way he uh delivers lines on the show, he's very kind of um not nonchalant, but kind of like stoic and just serious all the time and whatnot. But just stature-wise, everything about him, I was just like, Man, this man is this man is sexy, like I want to draw him. But yeah, Stargate is one of those uh TV series that I'm wildly obsessed with. And um I was just like, yeah, I need to draw this character.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:40

Have you seen the new one? There's a new one out. My husband's obsessed with it lately. Uh, and it's supposed to be very uh career focused in as well. This uh currently.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:06

Right now, from what I've heard, that they have gathered the rights and they are filming and gonna do a whole new TV series. Uh I believe it's London. Um I'm not sure what they're gonna do with the story. I know it's supposed to be a continuation of the franchise and whatnot, but uh even though with little knowledge of what's going on, just the fact that they're gonna bring it back, I'm ugh, I'm so excited for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh this piece I actually chose because I I feel like it goes back to the conversation that we were having earlier about redrawing some of the work that you've done in the past, which uh I read that this one was one of those. Tell us a little bit about this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

Um that piece, that's the current uh 20, what is that, 2025 version? Um when I drew that originally 10 years ago, um that was kind of one of I think one of the first illustrations that I had did for I Came to Sin. There was like I think like six of them that I did that were kind of like my first basis of illustrations for it. Um it was just uh I think I was thinking about a few different guys when I was drawing that. Um very kind of like uh Keegan Michael Key, uh common, you know, bald-headed, light-skinned dudes. Yeah, I could see uh with big beards and stuff, yeah. Uh and in my fashion, you know, doing the whole you know, tattooed up kind of thing and whatnot. Um yeah, this was just one of those uh attempts that I was doing with just trying to draw redraw something that I did, you know, years ago and whatnot to see how it turned out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

But I mean I feel like I feel like you can definitely see the the um transition of the tattoos and how uh like I mean the tattoos, first of all, look ridiculously good in all of them to me. I can also though see like the difference between this one and then it just seems a little bit more um almost cleaner uh between the two. Um, but they both look really, really cool and really, really dope.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

Yeah, like the original one, I was doing that thing with the eyes and whatnot, and uh it was supposed to be like this kind of ethereal being that's you know just chilling down, being sexy or whatever. Um the the newer one, I kind of switched it up a little bit with the eyes. Um to make it a little more subtle, but you can still see like there's something something here. Kind of like that uh that effect from um that they were doing with the eyes in centers.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Where it was like that little like glare that kind of shines through and whatnot. That's that's kind of what I was aiming for.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

Yeah, it's dope. I mean, this it's it's really, really cool. I also did see the one that you did for Sinners with Michael B. Jordan. I saw a couple of them. I was like, yeah, sickening, love that. Um so this kind of goes into kind of the vampire uh part that uh conversation that we were having earlier. Tell us a little bit about uh this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:33

So this one is very obvious, you know, the vampire, whatever. Um I was thinking about, you know, the idea of like, you know, the obsession that vampires have with blood and whatnot. I'm like, so what are some other ideas or things that they can be obsessed with and whatnot outside of you know kind of a moment that I kind of pulled from from real life um that deals with someone very dear to me that is actually my ex. Um very uh uh a real live three moment that I was replaying in my head and kind of wanted to like redraw it and uh do a vampiric spin on it and whatnot. So that's kind of how this came to be. I'm usually I'm not like a uh a foot person at all, but uh I would say with like an ex of mine, he was one of those people that was like, okay, I'm I'm into this.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

I love it, I love it. Um and so I also wanted to definitely make sure that to touch on just how I love the fact that um you also draw and include different uh different people with different body types and things like that. Um while yes, telling us a little bit about your inspiration behind this, also share um what makes you want to make sure that we are showcasing uh different folks and different body types and like the just making sure to showcase uh body positivity in the work that you do as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:20

Um well, you know, coming from you know being a big boy and whatnot, like I've always wanted to showcase that in my art that like no matter what uh the mainstream says, no matter what social media is saying, and no matter any of those stupid, fat public views that a lot of you know gay men have and whatnot, I I always wanted to highlight and showcase that like no matter what body type you're at, you can be sexy, and especially for the big boys, like um undoubtedly like you're sexy, period. Like there is no questioning over here, there's no fake, like yeah, body positivity, but only for certain types of people or not. Like for me, it's it's truly like I love big boys, I love the way they look, I love you know extra flabs of skin, I love the stretch marks, you know, all the extra folds and stuff. Like for me, it's just this thing of just I want to showcase that and I want to showcase it in a way that doesn't feel um what's the word, like performative. Yeah, yeah. Like I want it to be authentic. Like this is like everything I draw is visually what I find appealing. And yeah, the different body types that I draw, I find them all appealing. Whether you're you know stick thin or very robust big man, like for me, it's all good to me. So yeah, this piece was definitely one of those moments uh where I was also kind of in a love thing in my head. And I just wanted to draw like you know, two guys in love and just uh showcasing that, you know, no matter the body type, it can all exist there.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:02

Have you ever had um any uh people reach out and say, you know, thank you for showcasing um us different in different ways and different aspects, or uh just making sure to, you know, make it a part of the work that you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:18

Yeah, I every day, honestly, if I go through my messages, there's there's something there from somebody there like, you know, thank you for drawing what you draw. Like it's cool seeing like myself in this type of art and stuff, because you don't really see it anywhere. And I was like, the moments like that for me are just like what kind of keep me going. Um just like okay, this is exactly what I wanted. This is the response I wanted from people to feel like they're included, that they can visualize themselves in a space that uh often just does not uh cater to that. And if they do, um no disrespect to any other artists and whatnot, but a lot of artists that I see draw um people of color and whatnot, it ends up coming off very like fetishy and very just like it's just very weird and just uh a little bit uncomfortable. And like when you look at the body of their work, it predominantly does not showcase any men of color. And you draw men of color, it's just very like I don't know, just feels very uh I don't know what the word is, maybe misplaced, or just doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

Like it it doesn't fit in with everything they've done before. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:41

It seems like you're trying to like show face and like uh I gotta draw someone of color now so I can feel like I'm fitting in with everybody versus like just seeing the beauty in a person and you know drawing it and whatnot. But I don't know. For me, it's obvious when I go to an artist's page and they don't really showcase a lot of people of color, just kind of for me, tells me a lot about that person or whatever. But for me, I was just like, no, I want to showcase that full front and show people like this is coming from a genuine place, not some weird, fetish place, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I can definitely say I I appreciate that you definitely um show the different body types. You know, you still have the men, the body types in the men and the uh aesthetic that you enjoy, but also making that this is also, you know, of enjoyment and you think it's beautiful too. And I think that's amazing. And I love that uh you showcase it in your work for sure. Um, let's talk about this one. I thought this one was really I love this uh piece because I love that even though it is still in the aesthetic that you create in, it's also still kind of gives a different mood and a different vibe from everything else. Um it also still kind of has uh a love story behind it and also a cultural aspect behind it as well. So tell us a little bit about this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:17

Um, this was a commission piece that I uh got from uh Panji. You can see his um URL there. But uh I've been cool with these guys for a long time. Like um Trey on the right, he has purchased uh shirts from me. Um and they've always they both have been amazingly like you know supportive towards my art and whatnot. But uh yeah, they had uh he commissioned me. This was actually uh a combination of two different um commissions. Uh I commissioned he commissioned me to draw him on the left, and there was another drawing that I did of uh his partner on the right. And I was like, hey, I have this idea. I kind of want to combine both of your guys' commissions into one piece and whatnot. Because uh both pieces were both pieces were um the theme was uh their cultural background and whatnot. Um and they gave me very specific details to you know some of the items that they're wearing, the clothing that they wear and whatnot, and wanted to stay true to showing that pride in you know what they're trying to represent and whatnot. But uh also when I combined the two, I wanted to feel like you know, these are two guys who are together, but showcasing you know their um cultural backgrounds and stuff. But this one was really fun, actually. Like I got to do what I usually do, but kind of give um a softer view of that while still keeping true to like what I try to showcase in most of my stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:56

Yeah, yeah. And it shows. And I I again, you know, appreciate just the how you did make a decision to be creative in different ways and to make sure to still highlight whether it's the client or whether it's what you find uh dope in that piece, or whether it's just um it's something that you were inspired by. And I feel like it showcases in um everything that I've seen that you do, and uh it's it's really, really dope.

unknown 1:21:29

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:31

Um so we are at the end. Uh, I want to give you an opportunity to talk about. Um, you talked a bit a little bit about it at the beginning of the episode, but tell us a little bit about the GoFundMe that you currently have, what you're trying, what you're looking to do, and um what's the goal?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:53

Um, so I started this GoFundMe um to help aid in getting me to my first Artist Alley, which is gonna be a C2E2 um March 27th through the 29th. Um, this was my first time being accepted into an artist alley event. Um I had been applying for for years now and just never got picked. Um and I had applied to C2E2 uh this year, and I didn't think I was gonna get accepted. Selected me and I was like, oh shit, like this is gonna happen. But with the current climate of the world and uh jobs and everything, like I was just like, I'm not gonna be able to make this happen. So I started to go fund me to see if people would want to help aid and supporting me and getting to the event and whatnot, on top of uh you know the the other necessities of like you know, paying for the flight, the hotel, and all that stuff. Because right now I can't do it alone. So um, and also aiding and helping with getting uh merchandise and materials that way when I come there I'll have stuff to sell and showcase and whatnot. Um so yeah, the GoPhone Me is just kind of there to try to help aid in getting to my first event because this is gonna be kind of like the the catalyst for me branching out into the outside world versus being behind the screen and you know posting art online and whatnot. I want to do more of these events and um artist alleys and comic book inventions and stuff to really just push myself out there into the art world and be in front of a bunch of new faces and people. Um one of my friends is actually doing the event with me. We're gonna be splitting a table and um he's another uh black queer artist, and uh he does these events several times a year. And like I've been learning a lot from him. So like um seeing him and other people do this type of stuff, I'm just like, this is what I want to do. Like, I want to get out there and go to these markets and these events and showcase my art and the things that I bring to the table and hopefully gather some new friends and faces and stuff. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:13

That's dope. I mean, it's it's um you start to realize, you know, how most how people that support your work want to see you win. They want to see you be a part of these things, they want to see you excel. And um I'm excited for you and I I'm I know you will get there. And I'm hoping that uh that means, you know, it means bigger things and whatever more things that you want to do. Um, so that's gonna be dope. Well, tell the people where they can find and follow you, which I'll also put in the description at the bottom, uh, so that they can go and find you on social media.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:54

Um the big umbrella so you can go to everything at once, just go to iKink20.com and it'll showcase all of my social media links to the various platforms, um, to my web store, uh and to the GoFundMe and everything. Um usually operate out of Instagram the most. So if you want to reach out there or you know, browse myself, that's kind of the best place to go right now. Um if you want to see some art that is outside of sexy guys, uh go to Hail's Void on Instagram, and that's where you can see a lot of like the other creative endeavors that I dabble in and whatnot. But yeah, that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:41

Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come and join us today on this on the episode. Um I know that you don't like being on camera, but we appreciate you coming to hang out with us today on camera uh and uh coming to chat with us and to uh talk through all the things. Um I truly appreciate you and uh thank you again for joining us today. Um I'm gonna we're gonna take a final break and then I'll be back to close out the show.

unknown 1:26:13

Thank you.

Closing Reflection And Affirmation Card

SPEAKER_00 1:26:16

And we are back. So I hope you enjoyed today's conversation with Hale, uh, also known as I Came the Sin on Instagram. I on the podcast show, I am, and in the Hello Cheese May Production uh LLC, uh the goal really is to highlight artists, creatives, um, writers, designers, you know, folks that are in the industry that aren't um that are doing the work but aren't getting the um the visibility, right? Or as much visibility or needs more visibility. Um my goal is to make sure that we're building that ecosystem, bringing them in, showcasing the work, uh having a conversation about what inspires them so that we can, that I can build this ecosystem, I can build this community, uh, because it's important. Um, you know, when you talk about mainstream artists, creators, you know, all the folks who are out there getting that paper as they should. But also, what about, you know, bringing all the folks who still are trying to get into uh the spaces, um, showcasing them and uh bringing them to the forefront. And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Um to close out uh this episode, I did pull a card from the Golden Mantras uh uh the Golden Mantras deck, uh, which you know is our affirmation card. If you don't remember, this is uh we've had this one since the beginning. Um And I did pull a cart. So it says, I am in control of my life and I'm capable of creating the life I desire. And it says, My love, when we focus on things beyond our agency, it's easy to feel we don't have control over our lives. Once we focus on what we can determine, we realize we steer the path of our journeys. Spirit reminds you that you are in the driver's seat and are equipped with the tools you need to reach your desired destination. It's time to go out and get what you've been calling in. Create the life you see in your daydreams, beautiful one. And the general prompt is what is a fulfilling life? Ooh, that's a good question. It kind of goes back to that conversation or the question of trying to figure out what success means for you or you know what uh what that looks like for you. Um I think for me, what's continuously coming up that has been a theme over the last few months is um understanding that I am in the driver's seat and I can take this or the work that I do uh in my day-to-day uh in any direction that I want. Um and I can I'm the I will be able to move and navigate things as I should. But also in understanding that um life, you know, happens, things happen. So when those things when shit just falls into um when shit happens essentially, how do we navigate through to continue to get back on the road that we were trying to go down? Um but uh at the beginning of the year, the first thing that continued to come up was uh where I'll be putting my energy, how I'm gonna spread my energy, uh making sure that I'm focusing on like you know goals. I just did a bunch of goals for myself and kind of just ironing out some things that I want to make sure to try to accomplish this year. But then on the flip side of that, when we talk about life and shit happening at the beginning of the year, you know, there was there's quite a few different things that are happened to make me think like uh things won't necessarily go as planned because you know, sometimes you kind of just gotta slow down and take the pause um and um reflect on those things you've set up for yourself, and then we'll jump into those things, you know. Um, and we've talked about that. So, all in all, I just would say leave you with um making sure to um yes, make your goals, yes, you know, work towards them, uh, but also plan accordingly. Uh and and also I will always make sure to say give yourself grace uh with anything that you're trying to achieve or with things that are happening, um, because shit happens. Um lastly, uh on a different on another note, um you know, just stay safe out there. The world is still up in flames. I don't think that's gonna be changing anytime, which is kind of sad and bad to say. Um, but stay safe out there, y'all. Take care of yourselves. It's starting to get warm outside, so maybe that's you know, Hoochie Daddy season's coming up, Hoochie Mama season's coming up. Um, so you know, take care of yourselves, enjoy the sunlight. Uh, you know, find happiness in whatever you can, and um be safe. Thank you for listening. Catch you next time. Bye.