Hella Chisme Podcast
Hella Chisme Podcast is where unfiltered storytelling meets bold conversation. This show serves up juicy chisme while diving deep into the chaos and beauty of everyday life. From sex, dating, and marriage to pop culture, spirituality, and everything in between — no topic is off-limits.
Through a strong lens on identity, culture, and connection, Dana and friends keep it real for a community of listeners who are curious, culturally fluent, and down for the ride.
Hella Chisme Podcast
Intimacy Beyond Sex
Welcome back to another episode. This week together we challenge the widespread misconception that intimacy is synonymous with sex, exploring how it actually encompasses emotional, intellectual, spiritual, and physical dimensions of our relationships.
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Speaker 1:Bye and welcome back to another episode of the Hella Cheesemade Podcast. My name is Dana and I am your host. Oh my gosh, we are back for another episode. I'm very excited to be back. Oh my gosh, we are back for another episode. I'm very excited to be back. If you haven't listened to the newest episode, please make sure to go and listen. Episode 84, I believe, is out and about and ready for your ears to listen to it. Welcome back everybody.
Speaker 1:Happy Labor Day If you're out there in the streets Labor Daying. I know in Atlanta it's Atlanta Black Pride right now, so hopefully y'all are out there having yourselves a black ass time and enjoying the sceneries and the boys and ladies and theys and thems. I've been seeing y'all on the internet, y'all out there, acting up. I love that for you. Meanwhile, I am here in California and it is hot. It has been very, very warm these last couple of days, and I mean my Lord days, and I mean my Lord. That's why I am maintaining this fantastic tan that I got when we were in Fiji. It has not left me yet. I just I feel like right now I'm just like more golden chocolatey, which you know is my usual tone, as you, but over the winter it starts to fade away, but it is not faded, it's still here, which is fine by me. You know I've learned, as I've grown up, to embrace how dark I get during the summer, and you know it may not be for everybody, but it's for me. But yeah, it's warm. It's for me, but yeah, it's warm. It is Labor Day weekend.
Speaker 1:I've been trying my best to stay relaxed during this four days off of work and just enjoy my time at home. And then tomorrow, you know we'll be tomorrow and we'll get right back into the foolery of the work week, and that is fine by me. But how y'all doing? Are y'all taking care of yourselves? Y'all been drinking some water? Did you have your therapy session this week? Did you go for a walk? Did you go to the gym? Did you make sure to go get that pedicure, get that weekly maintenance or bi-weekly maintenance? I don't know how often you girlies go, but you know a bitch like me, I try to go get my nails done, like every month, because I get dip I think we've talked about this before and so I try to hold onto it as long as I can, um, but they still look good. So you know, I'm about another week out, um, but did you get your things done Is all I'm trying to make sure. I'm trying to check on you real quick. Making sure you're maintaining yourselves, making sure you're maintaining your mental health, is always important, and in any way in which form you feel like that is necessary.
Speaker 1:But it's been a lot going on, and I the last week, the last work week was pretty hectic. We came off of a busy. I worked seven days the week before because I had to work the weekend. We had a recruitment event that we had to have then went right into the new work week to have Then went right into the new work week. I had Monday off last week, though, and we went to the Marietta Hot Springs, which is near us here in Southern California, and it was a beautiful, beautiful place. It was very nice. They had, like, I mean, I think they have like 10 different pools. I may be that may be a wrong number, but, um, they have a lot of them, to say the least. It's a huge property. Uh, if you follow me on Instagram, I took a couple little clips and videos of it. Um, and it's pretty. It has like a huge pond in the middle of it and then it has a nice gym. I got me a nice little workout in before I started to dive into the foolishness of the day. It's just pretty and it was relaxing and we had a good time. A yang-yang doodle I was here for it.
Speaker 1:Then, yes, then got back into the work week. I didn't have a work computer for a couple of days, which was putting me behind on lots of the things I need to get done. Shout out to IT and how long they love to take to do anything. I love that for y'all. But after that things started to just. The week just flew by and then the weekend was here before I knew it, and now the weekend has been here and the weekend has left. I had a good little weekend.
Speaker 1:Saturday I went out with some friends, some squirrel friends, and we hung out. And you know, I think every time I go out and have those types of weekends where I'm out and about in the world, I remember why I just rather stay home and drink. And you know, you know, you gotta. I went out, I bought a little couple of items, you know, because I just looked in my closet and wasn't really feeling what was in there. So I I bought a couple of new things to wear and I was like you know why do we do this? It's nice to go out and be social and it does recharge my social battery. But I do feel like I'd be like girl. I could just be at home on my couch, you know, eating some snacks and having a free drink, instead of paying $15, $20 for one. But it was fun, it was good to go out, it was good to step out and do some socializing and getting out into the world and seeing what was going on the world and seeing what was going on. But also during this weekend I have been catching up on Love is Blind UK.
Speaker 1:I got the chance to watch the Love Island Season 7 reunion and I don't know which one to start with. Let's start with the reunion. I mean Love is Blind. I mean not Love is Blind. Love Island, usa, season seven reunion. I mean the season. You've all seen the season. The season was good, it was fun. This was my very first time ever watching Love Island. I tried to watch one of the international ones but it just it wasn't capturing me, um, and I turned it off. So, but this season I watched because I everybody was real hyped about this season, so I watched the entire thing and it was good.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm a huge fan of Alondria and Shelly, even though apparently there has been they've been getting bullied about being mean girls online during the show, which I mean Mean girls. I would not say they were mean girls at all. I would say when it came to having each other back in the season and during the show they definitely did that skin young ladies and other young ladies of different descents who you know men outwardly will say we don't like dark skinned women or we don't necessarily like black girls like that. I feel like that is fine. I feel like they should have had each other backs in the way that they did and I feel like you know it's calling a spade a spade. As far as I'm concerned, I I love how they have stuck together and continue to maintain their friendship, um, and I think that's okay and I and then at a on a bigger perspective of all the ladies and how they try to create like a sisterhood and they tried to make it make it just like very family oriented there in this house for days and weeks, and you know I mean they have hundreds of episodes of one season. So you know I understand the bonding and trying to bond with one another.
Speaker 1:I didn't understand Coco's whatever she's been doing, the heat she had against Alondria and whatever that whole situation was. I didn't get it. I just felt like I do kind of feel like she was trying to get a moment and although that's fine and I get that, because you know what this is your job and you need to create moments on TV so you can continue this, this work but I didn't get it. It wasn't, it wasn't landing for me and I just felt like you know she was trying to create something that wasn't necessarily there, but I also wasn't really paying attention to them on social media like that. So whatever she said may have happened and it may have transpired in the way that it did, but that's that's. That is what it is.
Speaker 1:But just diving deeper into the reunion, you know all the children's was there, so they had uh, all the boys, um, nick and uh Brian and um, uh, the short King can't think of his name right now. That was on there Ace, and uh Taylor and Clark and Iris and Pepe, and you know. So all of them were there. And even in Huda and what was that young man's name? Huda and not Huda? Chris was the last guy she was with. What was the other boy's name? Jeremiah, jeremiah. They were all there and I will also say that I didn't feel like they. But also Huda kept making references to she can't talk about her dating or who she's dating currently because of Netflix or something like that. And I love when Andy was like you let Netflix know that this was the top rated TV show on Peacock in the world, and I love that statement because I just I didn't understand what she was trying to do or say, like, maybe she's going to be on one of the Netflix shows that's coming up next summer or something like that, but it just it wasn't landing for me and I didn't understand what she was trying to do, but I wanted them to dive deeper into Jeremiah's and Huda's situation on the show because I just wanted to hear kind of their perspectives on it now, now that you know they recorded this almost a little, I think, almost just about a year ago, and I kind of wanted to, you know, hear how they felt and what they thought now. But yeah, anyway, amaya and Brian the winners were definitely there in full effect After reunion, amaya and Brian talked about cheating rumors that had been online and denied any cheating rumors and they, you know, said that whatever I guess had happened while he was at the club and I guess he used to be a bartender or whatnot and had admitting to a quote-unquote lapse of judgment in the situation where you know, I guess he was taking shots with these girls and doing a little bit too much at the club and Amaya was sitting there supporting him and was talking him through the whole situation and was giving.
Speaker 1:Like you know, we talked about it, we're moving on from it, it's not a big deal. And then after that they publicly announced they broke up. So but I always, I mean people got to do what they got to do for a check. You know what I'm saying and if that's their life, they got to live it. I don't? You know these? I also just look at it as these kids is young, um, and they're just breaking out in their careers at this point and if they choose to continue to doing shows like this, they have to build that foundation with doing things to keep entertainment and things that are entertaining to the people watching going. So more power to them.
Speaker 1:The whole Huda and Chris situation they did dive into and show some footage that we had not seen about the conversation between Huda and Shelly, which I think Huda had maintained through that whole story and that whole situation that you know we talked about this Like her and Shelly had talked about Huda bringing back Chris so that they both can have an opportunity to get to know Chris. But I do feel like Shelly did not necessarily want to get to know Chris because she was really trying to feel what was going on with her and Ace, and I think Ace made that worse because he was feeling some type of way after. Through the entire show, this man was like maintaining the fact that he was going to explore other options and other people and was very open and honest about it the whole time. So to me, I felt like Ace didn't necessarily give Shelly that opportunity to really get in there and explore other options, especially when it came to Chris if her and Chris were definitely going to try and be a thing, or if there were going to be a thing, but also on the flip side of that, chris was clearly showing that he was interested in Huda, and vice versa for the two of them. So you know, we all know how that ended, um, and you know they maintain that they don't speak, chris and huda and they have not.
Speaker 1:They had not been in contact with each other and chris had mentioned that huda did reach out to him, uh, prior to uh, coming on to the reunion, and he's just like sis, you should have did this a long time ago, um, which I agree. Anytime you trying to reach out before you know you're about to go be on a reunion or a show of some sort, it's important. It's like, if you know you about to do that, and then you finally reach out and apologize, like the semantics of that does not look good or people aren't going to take it well. So she shot herself in the foot with that one, huda did apologize and she did talk through kind of how she was seen in the villa and how you know she reacted to a lot of the things that she did react to, especially when it came to all the new girls coming in.
Speaker 1:She was talking about them and how she was, um, essentially just you know, coddling jeremiah like he couldn't get to know other people, like in which, on one hand, I understand that this is a show where you're supposed to be getting to know the different people that come into the house. You're supposed to be open to other relationships and other situations and you're supposed to explore because that's the point of dating and getting to know and then finding who your person is. I get all of that. I get all of that, but I think, on the flip side, too much which I didn't understand any of that either, because if you like somebody, you like somebody, no matter the amount of like in which you do like them. It's just I didn't get it. But again, kids, again kids.
Speaker 1:I think also there was also they talked about the rumors of Huda potentially dating Louise Russell, which I think that's the whole. You know she is saving that for Netflix or she can't talk about it. I don't know, I don't really care who the girl is dating. I mean, I I don't think anybody else really cares who she's dating either, unless you're like a huge hoda fan, like and I'm not to say that I'm not, I'm just like I don't give a fuck. Um from there, I, you know they they did go back into like the heart rate challenge, which was like a huge part of the show where Huda and Shelly's friendship kind of started to to fall apart a little bit. Also understand that after the show they were in they stayed in fiji or in the airbnb there for in airbnb somewhere, uh, for a couple of weeks after the show had wrapped and after everything was over.
Speaker 1:Um, because in that heart rate challenge huda had gave chris a lap dance ace, a lap dance and was looking all over him Like they showed all that footage and was like bouncing her ass all over him and everything, like she was doing the most. And to me it kind of felt like, for what? Like why are you doing all that on my man? And you know if you chris, over here next to you, and chris had picked up shelly and I feel like he was doing the most with shelly too. So I I just feel like you know y'all gotta call a spade a spade on that one, because y'all was all doing the most. As far as I'm concerned. Everybody was kissing on everybody. Everybody was licking parts, licking whipped cream off of parts. Yeah, they was doing the most.
Speaker 1:So and then it was, I think, the other couples it was nice to see Iris and Pepe. They seemed like they were together on the show the whole Nick and Nick Alondria, I think in the show it was a cool moment when Alondria came to pick up Nick after he had got eliminated and where she allegedly had got eliminated. I think that was a moment for everybody and obviously people who were watching the show saw something that a lot of other people didn't, because I never really saw Nick and Alondra getting together or wanting to be together or the fact that he had a crush on her or any of that. That was never made apparent to me and to this day I still don't feel like I get or understand the whole Nicolondria thing. So, but they seem to be doing something together or continuing to maintain some sort of relationship now that they're not there.
Speaker 1:So that's cool for them. And Alondra, get that check girl, because she out here. I've been seeing her. She was just out a cookout in Atlanta, for I think it was Southwestern College in Atlanta. I may be completely wrong, but she was there with Marseille, martin and with Zoe and with a couple of big names in media. Right now she there, so she's doing her thing and I love that for her.
Speaker 1:Uh, the shelly and ace they seem like they are together and he's seems to be head over heels for her. I love that for them. I'm not fully engaged in their relationship. I just, whenever I see shelly and alondra together, I'm like, oh I'm, I'm tuned in for that. But Ace to me seems like a fuck boy Moving on.
Speaker 1:Clark and Taylor seem happy. They probably are the cutest little couple. Clark got on a horse, she talked about it. She's living her best life with her country husband, her country man, and I love that for them. That's all I got to say.
Speaker 1:I just felt like Taylor, he, just, he, just he should have just been blatantly honest with Alondria from the beginning instead of wasting her time and having that girl all open, trying to, you know feel, figure out if they're going to have a relationship or if they are actually going to do something together. And I feel like he should have just been very honest with her and was like, and should have just been like I'm not feeling it. What you're I'm, I'm not feeling the same thing that you're feeling this isn't going to work is what I feel like he should have did and he didn't do that. So that's kind of where I'm at with that and that's pretty much the highlights for me. The reunion after that, I think you know it was definitely an emotional roller coaster. It was all over the place.
Speaker 1:I don't feel like they talked to every single person, because they had some of them in like a little bit of a waiting room or something like that before they sent them out on stage. You know they some of the people who came, some of the bombshells that came in, they, you know, talk to some of them but not all of them. I don't remember them talking to all of them, but for the most part they talked about some of the big moments. They talked about, you know, some of the moments that we all have been talking about in on social media and here at home. So for my first season of um, love Island I I'm good with. I'm good with it. Um. So Love is Blind UK I've talked about Love is Blind before and I've talked about Love is Blind USA, cause usually that's the one that I watched.
Speaker 1:I watched Love is Blind UK season one, which was good. I think I talked a little bit about it, but I don't remember but this season was pretty good as well. They ended up with the most married couples at the end is great. However, I mean, from what it sounds like, not all of them are still together, but you know, whatever um, they had highlighted quite a few different couples like um, anu and the spleen guy who I just every time he said it I was like somebody get this nigga off TV, please. Like why does he keep talking about his spleen? Um, and then, uh, joven and Katisha. Um, we had Karen and Megan, we had Billy and Ashley, we had Cal and Sarova, jed and Barda, and those were kind of the highlighted couples this season for Love is Blind UK and and I just don't want to say anything that's going to be like, um, let's start with Joven and Katisha.
Speaker 1:I stand on the fact that Katisha should have picked Demela because he seemed like he would have been much more better in catering to what she needed emotionally, because clearly she had had a past of not picking the good guys and not picking the right guys for her and they had clearly not worked out Right. And so what I witnessed wanted to hear, but she was sharing everything. You know, saying how much she liked him, saying how interested she was in. You know, getting to meet his family. You know telling him that. You know, essentially, when it boiled down to it, like I need more from you. And then he goes to read. When she breaks up with him, him he goes to read notes from their first date and then this girl's all open again, talking about how she's confused I'm like baby girl.
Speaker 1:This man is not, does not want you and clearly is trying to do whatever he can to get to that point to where he gets engaged and so he can leave and meet these other bitches. That's in these pods, like it was. It's like it was clear, especially once they finally got out of the pods and when they were, when he's been, when he was reportedly all over all these other girls and sophie. But we'll get to that. So, katisha and Joven, they get engaged and they make it out of pods. Karen and Megan are cute. I'm sure they are going to be together forever, just like Cameron and O'Girl, who are also having a baby. Shout out to them. Um, and so Karen and Megan get engaged. Uh, billy and Ashley get engaged. Who Billy is? Clearly this? Uh, super militant guy. Um, you know, controls? His diet was getting on Ashley when they were at the grocery store because she told him that she wanted some sweets and he was like you cannot be bringing that shit into this house because I will talk about you, which is fucked up. It's like you can't be making people feel bad about their food choices choices like not in no marriage or relationship, like unless, if not, if you want it to last long, this girl. And then she shared, like her story of how, um, her eating habits has have not always been that way and you know, she's kind of had to grow into wanting to get comfortable with food and what she's eating and everything, and like he still maintained that. You know, I just I'm gonna have to work on it and I just was, I didn't get it. Like this bitch want a cookie, let her have the fucking cookie. Like I don't get it. Um, but they still got married and they still ended up together. Um, it is word on the street that they split after reunion, but you know, hey, we'll see what happens. Um, that's the same thing for cal and sorova.
Speaker 1:Uh, the indian princess, posh princess, um, which he was cute, but I did, I did feel like I didn't necessarily think they had a very strong connection, because even when he was talking about her to his her mom and talking about her when he did his uh vows, I was like what you like about this girl? You like that she has a posh accent? You like what else? Cause, also, he had said that she's not his usual type, which is usual type of some white blonde girls. Is what he said, and I mean, if they ain't together no more. I can only assume that he went and got him a white, blonde girl. But we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1:I'm just, I'm just saying jed and barda definitely not together. Barda did not want to marry jed because barda wanted to dominate jed, which I think was not a thing that jed was willing to let happen. Period. Uh, and I, you know, and she, I think my homegirl got some money that she liked to fling around and he don't like that um, which most men don't. So, hey, I, she left. She said no, they're not together as far as it says here. Um, I don't know, they seemed like they could have been a cute couple, but she couldn't keep her card in her wallet and he wasn't having it happening. I don't know, girl, I don't know what to tell you about that one um. And then, as we know, javan and katisha did not make it um, dimala did. Katisha and dimala did meet up and you know, I do think that part of that conversation, with that woe was me from dimala was kind of annoying because I'm like boy, you didn't get her, that's. It's probably for a reason, unless they started to date, after all, the recording happened, but we'll see because we haven't even got the reunion yet, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:I still I love Love is Blind. I do, and I enjoy watching it. I love watching the people fall in love. I love watching them date. I hate when all the drama happens because it's frustrating, especially when we like back to Javan and Katisha when they went and did the mixer and this motherfucker went back out and this girl was at home crying and clearly she was mad because she had been seeing him flirting with Sophie before he went back out while they were at the mixer and then told him. Then he came back the next morning while they're getting ready to go see her parents, while they're getting ready to go see her parents, and told him oh, I was concerned that you were going out and we're going to be drunk and hungover when you were getting ready to meet my parents today and I was upset about that. I'm like bitch if you don't tell this man that you saw him flirting with that other bitch and that you was worried that he was gonna be fucking around with her like I. Just the lack of communication or clear, clear communication. For me I was just like wait what? And he was like, well, why would you think I would do that? You know you can trust me. And then megan told the whole story because she said no, he was like, well, why would you think I would do that? You know you can trust me.
Speaker 1:And then Megan told the whole story because she said no, he was all over all these bitches and he was with Sophie in the photo booth and the curtain was closed and Kertisha said no, ma'am, not me. And she got up out of there. And I don't blame her, she should have left. She should have never picked him as far as I'm concerned. And everybody knew it and I feel like she was crying about it and she was feeling some type of way because everybody said it, because everybody knew that this motherfucker was a fuckboy from the start. I mean, there was nothing to say, even them stupid-ass notes he read to her about their date said nothing. So I don't know, but it just it. It didn't, it didn't end well and it wasn't sitting right with me. I was like you should never pick this motherfucker because he ain't shit and ain't worth shit.
Speaker 1:Um, so those are kind of my highlights from love is blind uk, I think, for me what pisses me off the most about the love is blind and how it's been moving. It's very clear, like they know they have to pick some couples that they think will make it, or people they think will make it through the hole, but then they also have to pick people that will create some sort of drama and that will carry some sort of storyline to keep people engaged and entertained, right. But you know, I just I don't like that part. I like the falling in love part. It's the hopeless romantic in me, but that's it y'all. I just wanted to talk a little bit about that and, you know, just share my thoughts on Love is blind and, uh, love island.
Speaker 1:But, all right, I have a full episode ready for y'all today. Um, we gonna be, we gonna have a little guest today. We're gonna get into some things, talking about relationships, uh, which is perfect, because we've been talking about love is blind, talking about love island. So why not have a full episode where we're talking about some relationship things? So I'm going to take a quick break and then I'll be right back.
Speaker 1:Bye, hey, girl. Yeah you, I'm trying to figure out why you're not subscribed to our Patreon channel yet. We've been telling y'all for months now to go ahead and get subscribed to our Patreon. It's only $8.99 a month. Other than that, make sure you are following us on all of our platforms, like Instagram and Threads. Yes, we are really active on our socials and medias, just like everybody else. Other than that, we hope that you all are enjoying the show and make sure to follow, like, comment and subscribe Bye the show. And make sure to follow, like, comment and subscribe Bye. So this week we are going to be having a conversation. So, to start, my husband is on this episode and y'all gonna be nice and welcome babe.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it involving me in your project.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, you know. So the last episode that you was on was the Live it Leave it in 2023, which we featured you on there as Pushin' P. I don't know if you remember that whole conversation about Pushing P and it was a good episode. I mean it was fun. It was like our first. That was our first half of the year doing the show, and then we ended it with the live episode of talking about like trends and stuff that we're going to leave in 2023 at the time, which is crazy to think about, is almost about three years ago. Well, it'll be two years and then three years at the end of next year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but welcome back, Thank you. Thank you. What's been going on? How's life been? How's married life been? What's been happening? It suits me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I like it. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I feel like it's definitely working for me.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it's working for the both of us. I think it's fine it's been. You know we've been living our life. I talked about our trip to Fiji on the first episode back and how we had enjoyed ourselves. Clearly, you're still living in your Fiji attire.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's nothing wrong with a little Hawaiian island treatment.
Speaker 1:So how has work life been? I always do a check-in with our guests and our people, but how's work? What's been going on with work life?
Speaker 1:I mean, you know hair grows Still needs to be done, so I do it, yeah, and we be living our lives and doing our clients as much as we can yes, definitely. So this week we're going to get into conversations about intimacy right, and intimacy beyond sex and intimacy in different areas and aspects. I thought it could be a perfect episode to bring you on and have that conversation with, since we are married and you know we've been and we all have past dating lives, and I think it could just be a good conversation to have and I think it's going to be fun, okay.
Speaker 2:We get to practice a little intimacy.
Speaker 1:We, can't we can. Oh, I guess as we get into the conversation. Actually, there is different forms of intimacy right.
Speaker 2:Yes, intimacy can be beyond sex.
Speaker 1:Yes, which is a great question to start with. So, like what do you think of intimacy and what do you feel like it is?
Speaker 2:Um, being at the age that I am now, what I consider intimacy is definitely different than what I thought of intimacy 10 years ago. 20 years ago and 30 years ago I didn't have no business about intimacy, but we're not talking about that today. I think that like intimacy is to be able to be like your unapologetic, authentic self with somebody, without the need of feeling to be guarded. I think that, yeah, like sex is a great way to start with that, because I mean you're completely naked, you're completely vulnerable. Start with that because I mean you're completely naked, you're completely vulnerable, but like what happens when it's not just about the act of being intimate, but like this is an intimate relationship, right, is that?
Speaker 1:you follow. Yeah, I know, yeah, I mean you know, when you think the intimate, the intimacy, the intimacy and what it means is like closeness, trust and vulnerability, right? So how are you going to show up in those ways in whatever situation that you're in, right, and how can you emotionally put yourself into the space with the person that you are with at the time? And how are you going to do that? How and in what ways are you going to be able to trust the person that you can do that with? And then vice versa? Yes, yeah, same for me. I think that when you are trying to be intimate with someone or being intimate with someone, it's really truly trusting that they're going to take what it is that you're doing and they're giving and it's enough for them and feels kind of that emotional and cup for the relationship or for the person.
Speaker 2:I mean, I guess that brings me to a question, because you said try, and I feel like when you're being intimate, I think that it's something that, if it's authentic, it should be happening organically. Maybe you make a conscious effort, but I don't think you should have to try to be intimate. I don't know if that's a you know what I mean a point to be made, but like yeah, Well, and I say try, because sometimes it doesn't come naturally for everybody- I guess that's true. I guess everything you have to make an effort.
Speaker 1:You have to make an effort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, okay, I'll take that back, I'll live with that one. I mean, I'm just saying I'll live with that one, I guess because it's been so organic for us yes, most of our relationship. I think one of the first times that I realized that we were being intimate was when you told me you had never laughed during sex before. Yes, and I thought, okay, I'm definitely doing something right here. This is definitely something different.
Speaker 1:And laugh in a way, not meaning like it's funny, but just like that it was fun, it was funny, it was funny.
Speaker 2:I am one to laugh and crack jokes and make a few extra noises, to make a few extra points.
Speaker 1:But, clearly it and that's the thing, right, and I think that one of the things a long time ago that I heard, do you remember? There was a show, an older lady she was an older white lady. She used to have a show on like CBS, maybe like After Dark, and she used to talk sex with and people would call in.
Speaker 2:Oh, like the Dr Ruth show.
Speaker 1:Is that her?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's the sex doctor from the 90s. Yes, yes, Like she's an old lady.
Speaker 1:Old lady. Yes, yeah, dr Ruth.
Speaker 2:Dr Ruth, yes.
Speaker 1:So she was on and one of the things she was saying was you know, if you can't talk about sex, then you can't lay down. If you can't talk about sex, then you can't lay down. If you can't talk about the sex with the person that you're having it with, you shouldn't, then you shouldn't be laying down with them. Um, and that was one of the things that I've always held uh close to me, because I I think it's true like if I can't talk about it with you, then we can't. Why are?
Speaker 2:we doing? What are we doing? That's true. That's true. I get that. I mean in an intimate relationship, because there's also I think that it's also good to define like there is a difference between having sex and being intimate with somebody, and sex is involved. Yeah, that's true. You know what I mean, because there there are so many different layers or levels to sex. You you know what I mean. There's sometimes you just have a fuck buddy and that's. We barely know each other's names. Your name isn't even the right number under the. Your name isn't even under the number in my phone.
Speaker 1:It just says X. Right, like I've made up a name based on the sex that we're having.
Speaker 2:I mean, oh, Mr Goodbar.
Speaker 1:What Is that? One of the names that you had in your phone, mr Goodbar.
Speaker 2:Mr Goodbar, that was one of them. Oh my God, I mean you from the very beginning, I mean you were always babe in my phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually I put in here Paris Kissy honey face because that's how it fits in my phone. So just defining and getting a baseline of defining what intimacy is. It's talking about emotions, right, the intellectual part of it, the spiritual part of it, the experiential part of it, where we were talking about, like, doing different things in the bedroom or or just what, how do, how does, how can we make connection intimate with one and one, one other person? And then the physical side, which does not always mean sexual. Um, a common misconception about intimacy is that it is the same thing as sex, when that's clearly it's not. No, and it actually shows in research that intimacy is multidimensional, right, it can mean many different things. It could be different things for people. Sitting in a room reading a book with your partner can be intimate. I feel like pillow talk is a part of intimacy where you're talking about. Depending on what you're talking about, or just sharing things about your day and or the setting in which you're doing, it can be just that and intimate.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think, like when you start talking about pillow talk and that being intimate because there is that moment of like when you're downloading your day with your partner, there is no real judgment maybe about like the situations and the people that are involved. Even if I'm wrong in a situation, I know that I can be told that and be vulnerable enough and intimate enough to be like. This is how I'm really feeling in the situation and this is really what's going on, and I think that sometimes those conversations can be more intimate than physical intimacy.
Speaker 1:However, that to, yeah, to be defined, yeah, I can see that, which I think leads us into kind of the diving deeper into this conversation part. So let's talk about casual dating. So we both have had a dating past before we were married and I want you to like dig into kind of those experiences and Do I have to?
Speaker 2:I mean not necessarily. I don't want to go. You don't want me to dive into it.
Speaker 1:But really, the conversation that I want to talk about is intimacy when it comes to casual dating. Okay, I think that you know when you.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you have to also, too, define the question for me. What do you mean by casual dating, like, are you dating for a boyfriend, are you dating for? I mean, you know, I come from a different era. I know girls that used to go out with men just because there was a meal involved and that, but that's. Is that the kind of casual Like? What are we talking about? What?
Speaker 1:are we saying casual dating like.
Speaker 1:I think that's a good question. I for me, when, so when I was dating, okay, at one point I would just, I was dating just to get to know different people and, you know, with the thought that at some point I would end up in a relationship relationship. But I think a lot of the issues that I found when I was dating was that I think I was um, I was exuding, wanted to be more serious than the person that I was dating wanted it to be okay, and so, whereas you know, I've always been a hopeless romantic, you know this, and I've always loved the romantic part of dating and being in relationships, and I think sometimes that can be too much for when you're dating or casually dating. So I think it's just, I think that casual dating part is relative to who the person is and whatever they are looking for I mean.
Speaker 2:So you're just talking about dating.
Speaker 2:It's not even necessarily casually, we're just talking about dating in general dating in general okay, okay got it got it, got it I'm like because casual dating I thought I feel like casual dating is well, I mean also too, I think, when you have this conversation, when you talk about dating, there is dating for gay men, which we don't get into. That okay, I mean, you know. And then there's like dating to find a partner, yes, and then there's dating because you're bored and you want something to do and you need that serotonin hit of like, oh, somebody likes me, somebody's texting me, somebody's, I mean. But I mean, are we talking about it or are we not it is like that, but that that's exact.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's exactly. My point is, like in casual dating, how can you be intimate with a person that you're just, we're just dating? Like where'd you, should you even be taking it that far? I think that's also the part of it. Like what is the line?
Speaker 2:I mean personally, I don't. I mean how much intimacy should I be having with a person that I don't know that well or that is not necessarily known to be like a trusted source or a trusted confidant? You know what I mean like a trusted source or a trusted confidant. You know what I mean. But then on the flip side, you know, in what I do for a living, there are very intimate conversations that I have with perfect strangers all the time where we're both being very vulnerable and both being very honest about situations and things in our lives. So I mean, I don't know, I guess I'm having a hard time trying to put like, how do those? Like? Because intimacy doesn't necessarily need to be physical or sexual, that's right, because intimacy I have very intimate relationships with, you know, for a lot of my friends that were, you know like yeah, yeah. So I mean I don't know I don't.
Speaker 1:I mean, and that's why I was like, okay. So if you are, you met this person on an app, y'all talking, y'all go on a date, y'all go on the date, the chemistry's there, it's amazing. Okay Then. But when before y'all went on this date, you're like okay, I think I'm just gonna go meet up with this guy. You know, you're telling your friends we gonna meet up, we gonna go out on the day, um, and I'm just really down for the meal, like what you're saying, like I was talking about before. Okay, but y'all get there and you find yourself in this setting where it's like really good, it's like the chemistry is there, it's really nice, we're vibing. But that is a part of intimacy, right, because you are connecting on a different level. There's an emotional connection.
Speaker 2:Because I mean, like, having chemistry, I think, is one thing that has to come before intimacy, even if you or do you know what I mean? Like, okay, maybe because there's chemistry, you feel this like, okay, we can go a little deeper, we can go a little more honest, we can go a little to the next level, yes, yes, but I mean I don't know, but I, I, I think that people get it confused. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like, when you start to talk about you know, chemistry and vibes and intimacy, and because you can have somebody where you can go, okay, I'm totally physically attracted to this person. That is my type. You get over there and you go. Oh, my god, the fucking personality's a bust.
Speaker 1:Where it's just like I can't even have a deeper conversation with you further than you telling me that you know I'm so hot you know I got a nice posh accent. We was just talking about love is blind, Okay, got it, got it.
Speaker 2:I mean I just you know what I mean Like where you and then to be able to feel like you know, like okay, now there's chemistry and then, beyond the chemistry, there's connection. Yeah, you know what I mean, because I think there are different levels, and I guess that's what we're talking about. Yeah, levels that are like leading up to feeling like you can be intimate, or what boxes do you check and what situations kind of lead you to jump around and then also like what kind of intimacy are you in the market for?
Speaker 2:that's right exactly that's exactly my point, like are you emotionally available? Are you mentally prepared? Is your karma on the level of where you're like, okay, I'm living my life that like I deserve this and you know it's going to come to me I'm attracting the right things, like I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the. That was the reason I wanted to have the conversation of. Just like you know, I think it's worth having a conversation about, especially in a world where dating is heavily on an app now. People don't necessarily Meeting is on an app.
Speaker 2:Meeting is on an app. Now. Dating happens in real life. Finding love happens in the real world, one-on-one, away from a screen.
Speaker 1:I mean, unless people are. There are people who are using AI today.
Speaker 2:Well, ai is not going to fuck you. Hey, you can quote me on that one.
Speaker 1:Listen, people are getting very creative.
Speaker 2:I mean that's fine, but I guess the other thing too is that but that's not real because there aren't real emotions being involved in there. There's no feelings. Ai can't feel for you. That's true. Ai can read an algorithm and say OK, when a person says this, most people respond to it this way, so this is what we're going to do.
Speaker 1:It's a prerecorded conversation that has been already been written out before you even thought up the question. Well, and it also builds on your past experiences with it too right To make itself stronger, like that's his job, but I mean we've dived into a whole other world. Oh sorry, but anyway. So you know, just going back. So I think another myth and misconception is casual dating has no intimacy, which is not true. We I think us sitting here and having that part of the conversation, let's it's clear that there is some sort of intimacy that comes up as some way shape or form. I think it's just based on the persons and the situation and what it is that they're looking for. Right, like you said, if you're dating someone and it depends on what is it that you're essentially looking to get out of the date, what is it that you are available for? Because I think that a big thing is understanding if you are even emotionally available to even go through anything with another person.
Speaker 2:And going down the road that you're going. I think the other thing that you've got to throw in there, too, is luck and timing. You know what I mean. You meet someone who had a conversation with their mom that morning and they're thinking a little bit oh, being kinder, being more honest, being whatever it is funnier that you're looking for that day. Yeah, you know what I mean. Somebody cuts you off at work or on your way to work, and now you got an attitude and you show up to the. You know what I mean. Like there are so many different, like I mean layers to that. But I think once you get to a point that, like you're casually dating and you're thinking of being more honest or more intimate, you're checking multiple boxes and then is it casual anymore. Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:At what point do you just start defining what the relationship is?
Speaker 2:and well, I mean, and just like, okay, oh, I'm casually dating you, but I'm being emotionally vulnerable and available to you and we're being what I feel like is very intimate. Yeah, are you still searching for that with other people, or amongst other things? I just, I mean, I'm asking questions.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's a it's a good question, I mean, and so the reality of it is is that intimacy doesn't disappear just because there is no label. I think that we made that clear. People can form emotional bonds, even in relationships, or what we can talk about next is situationships. In fact, studies have shown that people in casual relationships report levels of trust and connection that look at like real relationships, which you you know. That's also for you to define, right, like, if you are with this person, are y'all just dating? Um, I used to say all the time that, uh, when I was dating, was I'm not dating this person, I'm seeing this person, which I feel is a difference as well well, I mean, I mean, once we started dating, you seen me every fucking day.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I would imagine I don't know how it was with the other guys before me, but I mean, yes, once you started seeing me you didn't have time to see anybody else, that's right.
Speaker 1:And situationships. Another myth is that situationships can't have boundaries, which I don't believe. That Hold on wait, what A myth is. Situationships can't have boundaries. I just want to.
Speaker 2:so that is a statement, and I think it is a true statement. It is a myth that situationships can not have boundaries. Any relationship that you're in or with can have whatever kind of boundaries that you put on it. It's your life, Exactly.
Speaker 1:Which makes it possible to create an emotional connection or some sort of intimacy within those type of situations.
Speaker 2:What is the difference between a situation, ship and a relationship?
Speaker 1:then, the difference to me is that y'all have not labeled what it is Like. Y'all are having a relationship, or you're or you. Just again, like I just said, you're. You aren't even calling it dating. You're talking about. This is my friend You're talking about.
Speaker 2:But what happens when the situationships start to like cross over into other parts of your life? Like you say situationship, and I think maybe it's because of my age, I think hookup culture, and I think here's this person. I call them on thursday and sunday nights. They know what's up, I know what's up, you know, like that to me is situate. That to me is like just kind. Okay, this is the person that I'm hooking up with. Situationship, like I mean, I don't know, are you going out on dates? Are you introducing them to your friends? Is it wham bam? Thank you, ma'am, is it? Are you staying the night? But then, is that not negotiating the boundaries of a situationship? And then how is that really different from a relationship?
Speaker 1:I think you should ask that question right into the camera, because there's a lot of these girls out there. I'm just asking.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to add. If the girls ain't asking the questions, then baby ask I'm here to help.
Speaker 1:Well, because it's trying to understand why are you wasting your time? Why does it have to be wasting time? Because if you had a goal in mind, if you had a goal that you was trying to get to, okay, I think, in any situation where you're talking about dating or you're talking about we about to go, what was the end goal? If you didn't have any expectations or none of that, then okay, you end up with whatever you feel like you have time or emotions for at the time.
Speaker 2:I think it's like timing and luck. You know, if you're out here dating to be in a relationship and you end up finding a guy that is not necessarily relationship material but the sex is great, well then set yourself up with a situation ship. There are people out here all the time. Find dream job, don't love it. So when you set out looking for something, something, I think that there's that luck and timing. Okay, you know, sometimes you gotta take what the world has to offer and if you got lots of oranges, make orange juice. I mean right or wrong, dave, I don't know like I can't, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think, because when I think I just everybody is different. So I can't imagine if, if you have an intent or knowing what your intent is, then I don't know if you're trying to date. If you're not trying to date, or if you just want to meet people just out here having fun, trying to create a rotation, you know, then do you?
Speaker 2:yes, without a doubt. But I mean, I think, going back to what you were saying before and talking about bound boundaries, like, what boundaries have you set for yourself? So often we want to have conversations about what does this look like with other people? What does my life look like when there are other people involved or invested or whatever? What boundaries do I have set up for myself? What are my intentions? What's available for me? That I'm like I'll date a guy that's been to jail, or oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not doing that. That's like, and that's just an example.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, are you open to a non-monogamous relationship? You know what I mean? There are, I think, just being in the hair salon and having people coming in and sitting down and talking, you would be surprised the number of people that are in non-monogamous, open relationships or close, no, no, no, yes, non-monogamous like. I have one client, her and her longtime boyfriend both hook up with other people, sometimes together, sometimes separately. I have another client that she is dating a male and female couple and she's dating not just the girl, not just the guy, but both of them. But they don't hook up with other people. And I mean I'm sure there's a lot of intimacy that be going on in all them situations and without judgment. I'm not saying's a lot of intimacy that be going on in all them situations, but without judge. I'm not saying that with judgment, but I'm just saying that with the sense or the idea that you have to set yourself up with some sort of idea or boundaries of what you're open to or not open to. I'm not open to dating a girl. That's just not my thing. Hard boundary. I mean, yeah, my best friends, like, we can hook up, we can hang out, we can go out, but no, we're not making out, we're not doing anything. No, thank you, I'm good, you're not for the p, you're no like I mean.
Speaker 2:It's also the same way that, like, some people are like, oh, I only day black guys. You go, okay, that's your thing, that's where you're. Like, your bread is buttered and good for you. You know what I mean. Like, okay, like. But there's this whole world out there in that kind of like saying it, but not saying it is that it may not come in the package that you're looking for, that you expect, like everybody's not gonna be fucking six, six and and you know, dim body and yeah like it, and that's great. If you want to hold out for that, you go. Babes, you do what you got to do. Boo-boo. Intimacy might be hard to come by for you, though. Okay, and I bet you that there is probably some 5'8 man that is punchy that would rock your motherfucking world every night of the week the way that you want it to, but because you won't look at him twice, you missing out on that kind of intimacy. But again, there are so many things that go into.
Speaker 2:It's not like it's just this one, it's not a it's not a one-size-fits-all and and it's not one way to fill a jar, you know what I mean you may be pouring something into another area of your life and all of a sudden, you're being fulfilled over here by and with someone that you didn't even expect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's all very true. So I think what it boils down to is talking about like situationships and casual dating. Intimacy can be real in those spaces. I think it just comes to what the person is looking for.
Speaker 2:Hold on, wait. I just want to make sure we're clear. You said it can or cannot be. It can have intimacy.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, it just depends on what the person. It depends on the person, I think, is what it just boils down to, and it can change based on whatever it is right, yeah, um, so moving into what we're talking about, when we started was like marriage and long-term relationships. Um, as we we've been together for seven years.
Speaker 2:Two 2020.
Speaker 1:No what 2018 was when we started dating.
Speaker 2:We were together. I just don't want to get married.
Speaker 1:We got married in 2021.
Speaker 2:There we go. I didn't exist before we got married. Nothing, my whole life.
Speaker 1:Um so, speaking in terms of like marriages before we got married, nothing my whole life.
Speaker 2:So speaking in terms of like marriages and long-term relationships.
Speaker 1:I think that there's a lot of different misconceptions and different people have ideals around what happens in long-term relationships and marriages, and one of those things is that kind of that intimacy factor or that the element of having sex and everything changes and or dwindles or dies when you're in a long-term relationship, in a marriage. And I mean, I think we can just start off by saying that that's not 100% true at all.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that people that don't work at it I can understand how that becomes a thing, people that aren't interested in keeping it spicy or, you know, willing to change it up, or I can understand how that could or would be true, but then also, on the other end of it, is that like, does it become more beneficial and give you like a higher sort of like serotonin boost or whatever the chemical dopamine?
Speaker 2:Whatever happens when you're able to be, um, you know, intimate about your feelings and and what's going on? Um, we've had some great sex that I would say wasn't necessarily like intimate, and then we've had conversations where we've cried and there's been nothing sexual that I have thought have been very intimate and very vulnerable and revealing. So where does it lie or what is? What is it? Because with time I keep thinking in the back of my mind there is this like I don't know where I heard it or where it came up, but it keeps kind of like popping up for me in this conversation is that, like, at what point does the marriage become the like the best marriage that it can be, and that you'll be the happiest in that marriage that you can be? And that's when you find that your partner isn't necessarily your lover anymore, but your best friend. And who can you be the most vulnerable and intimate with than your best friend?
Speaker 1:I agree with that and, in fact, a good fact that I'm going to share is, according to a 2016 study in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, couples who report high emotional intimacy were significantly more satisfied with their relationships and their sex lives, meaning the two are more connected. But intimacy is a driver and it's not just about sex which kind of leads exactly to what you're saying. Like the conversations that we've had, where Super have been having those conversations and being able to stay connected, I feel like do drive, continuing to grow closer and continuing to stay connected. I also think, which is something that comes up in what we'll talk about is like those check-in moments, like those moments of asking questions, those moments of being like so what's been going on? How have you been feeling about things, how any things that we need to talk about which I think are important.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think to go back just for a second, though, and another question that I want to present, or is, with intimacy and having sex, are we no longer having sex? Are we then making love? I mean you tell me, I mean I well, I present the question because I feel like in my mind, once you really start to introduce intimacy, and that's what the act starts to become about, then it isn't necessarily about like sex and self-pleasure. Like you, you want to make sure that the other person is happy and that you're you're getting pleasure and seeing the pleasure of the other person, and like how intimate that starts to feel.
Speaker 1:Well, so here, okay, I think let's start here before we answer that question. Okay, sorry, making love, uh-huh, making love means that it's so in my mind, when I hear making love, I feel that it's like it's slow. It's progressive love I feel that it's like it's slow, it's progressive. It speeds up at some point and then it's, and then you know, we get to the climax that we get to.
Speaker 2:To me, that's making love I mean, I'm like I just want you to know that all you're making love to me has not been slow and sweet. No, but that depends on the person too.
Speaker 1:Like that is relative to how a person enjoys sex.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, when you say slow, I think, oh, it's slow and it's passionate. I'm talking about intimacy and the act of intercourse becoming something other else than just sexual relations. That, okay, once we're like, the equation is plus, yeah, this, plus this, plus this equals this. Right, and I guess that's what I'm saying. Is that, like, if you're being intimate with a person and you're in the act of having sex, right, are we then making love? Or because I mean you could be making love and fucking at the same time yeah, which? But you can just fuck too.
Speaker 2:But that's what I'm saying. I'm like I don't you just like, where is the dissection of all of these things? And what does that equation look like? Yeah, To create the end result of what we're labeling relationships as Is it a situation because we're this, this and this, Can you make up your mind before you go into it? Or are the things that are at your feet and in your hands those are what they are, and you just need to do the equation and what it equals is what it equals.
Speaker 1:But that's if a relationship doesn't continue to have that connection, then yeah, it equals. But that's if they, if a person, if a relationship doesn't continue to have that connection, then yeah, it is. It's going to be just like I'm just here to give you what you want, you're just here to give me what I need and at the end of the day, I'm about to go eat potato chips on the couch.
Speaker 2:I mean. But we can make love and be intimate and eat potato chips on the couch, but that's different, but that's not the conversation that we're having.
Speaker 1:The conversation that we're having is that different people. It happens for different people in different ways.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Everybody is not us. No, we are not everybody. No, the conversation that we are having is that there are relationships, that, yes, there is a fact that they aren't having sex, they aren't even making love and they aren't having intimate conversations.
Speaker 2:And I mean, are we talking? I just met him a month ago, or we've been together for eight years.
Speaker 1:No, we're talking marriage, long-term relationships, got it, got it, got it.
Speaker 2:They should seek a sex therapist. I don't know if Dr Ruth is around anymore, but I am sure that there are plenty of successors to her that have come after her, and you should seek professional help.
Speaker 1:I mean again, I think what it boils down to is that, you know, I do think there is a strong communication factor that plays a huge part in intimacy, in intimacy in sex, and when you are talking about intimacy, sex, long-term relationships, if y'all are not properly communicating and are not communicating, then that is the fact, in when it all just starts to fall apart.
Speaker 2:Well, and I mean also too, is everybody involved looking for the same thing? Does the, do the partners want intimacy or, you know, do they just want somebody to the conversation? And, I'm sorry, the conversation that we were listening to when we were at the hot springs? Oh yes, I just like that comes to mind, or do you just?
Speaker 2:want somebody that is like paying half the bills and kind of shows up and is there to be your plus one at a wedding or in the photo with you because you don't want to feel lonely, like I mean, there are 27 dresses. Are you going to be intimate with a person like that, or are they just there as a placeholder, to check the box, because you've made up your mind that you're not going to be vulnerable enough or do anything?
Speaker 2:to make this relationship go anywhere or gamble, to go out in the world and look for what you want, or be honest with the partner and say, hey, some of our best conversations, I think, have started with like, hey, I'm not comfortable with this. And vulnerability and intimacy. I mean we think, oh, intimacy, it should feel good and it's nice and it's soft. I mean, maybe it doesn't start out that way. You know what I mean. Like in anything, if something is going to grow, it's going to have to break. Some things have to hurt and be uncomfortable. I agree with that and I think that's how you grow intimacy. It doesn't just like, oh shit, I opened a door. There it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean, if that were the case, everybody would have all of these intimate relationships all around all the time with everybody in their lives, and they don't all the time with everybody in their lives and they don't, I mean just not even on a relationship level. Again, going back to my job, you would be surprised the number of people that I encounter that do not have friends and you want to talk about people that are lacking intimacy and lacking love.
Speaker 1:Seriously, I mean, that's one thing that I always talk about is you know how your your long-term relationships based on where you've come from, like family-wise too, like connection with parents, connection with mom, connections with dad, the examples of life that you have exactly, and then how you then choose, because it is a choice to mimic or the exact opposite of those relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when you talk about the lack of love in people's lives, you know all of that plays a part, yeah, so I mean, you know, I think we've definitely been clear that it is a piece of communication that plays a role in that, when it comes to long-term relationships and when it comes to um, when it comes to marriages, um, as couples, you have to communicate in some way, whatever makes you feel comfortable. I think at the beginning of the show we said at the beginning of this piece, we said you know, if y'all gonna lay down and fuck, y'all should be able to communicate with each other.
Speaker 2:I mean why are you fucking somebody? You have your clothes off and you don't have any armor on and you can't have a conversation with them. That doesn't. And not to say that I've always followed that, yeah, like I mean, I've definitely have laid down with people that I had no intentions of being vulnerable or intimate with.
Speaker 1:But you told them what you needed and what you wanted in that moment. I mean.
Speaker 2:But you told them what you needed and what you wanted in that moment? I mean, do you?
Speaker 1:tell somebody anything like that when you don't even know their name. Look, you think porn stars have to communicate with each other. You don't fuck me like this. Don't grab my name.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I guess.
Speaker 1:If you want me to come at the end of this situation, you need to put it this deep no, I'm not.
Speaker 2:You know it's like Okay, well, situation. You need to put it this deep? No, not. You know it's like okay, well, I mean intimately, I think you're talking too much about our personal life, oh um.
Speaker 1:So I think so. We did touch on a little bit about same-sex relationships and marriages and I think in some way, shape or form we've kind of uh, those, all of this conversation about intimacy and relationship has kind of intersected into that piece. But I do want to kind of sit in that area a little bit of like same-sex marriages and long-term relationships, just because we are a same-sex couple, which I, you know, you're a man, I'm a man, I'm a man. I think I, I present or I identify as a cisgendered male.
Speaker 2:I mean I'll respond to whatever I get called. A girl a lot.
Speaker 1:Me too, especially on phone calls, with a full beard.
Speaker 2:I don't understand it. I mean, I know the long hair is a little like gender bender, but I mean get it fucking together.
Speaker 1:The people. They just want us to be women.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Yes, and really I think for me, the part of this conversation is just, you know the different thoughts and conceptions around gay couples and lesbian couples and or they, them couples or whatever you want to, however you identify Like. It's always said that lesbian couples move faster than gay men couples, and then whenever we talk about gay male couples, it's always well, after like five years y'all been together for a hundred years and dog years and I'm like why can't it just be that you know we found each other and want to stay with each other?
Speaker 2:I mean our own personal story. I mean I think we kind of followed the lesbian route, if you will. So I mean I don't necessarily know how much it has to do with being gay or being lesbian or straight or bisexual. I think it's about the examples that you set and what you're ready for in life, like what I had said for my, dana and I met. I was 40, 39. And I had thought I was ready for a serious relationship. I was a serial monogamist, I was a serial hoe for a while, like I mean, I had buttered both sides of the bread trying to figure out where and what fits.
Speaker 2:But when we met there was something different and I was ready in a different way. There was a different eye that I seen through. There was a different ear that I heard things with. There was a different voice that I seen through. There was a different ear that I heard things with. There was a different voice that I spoke with because it was different. Now I don't want to be like, oh, we're soulmates or you're not the other half of my soul, because we're both complete people, which is a whole different conversation. But I will say that, like you know, when you meet someone, and it's right. I think it also goes back to kind of what I was saying before is that you shouldn't have to try or work at it, and not to say that you're not going to try or that you're not going to work at it, but there's something organic that should be happening when intimacy is occurring. If you're forcing it, is that really intimacy? And if it's not, then what is the word for what that is? Because, well, I mean, is it fake, is it?
Speaker 1:fake, is it it?
Speaker 2:fake. Are we taking a show? Is it fake, I mean? No, I mean I'm seriously asking Like, what is that Like if you're in need of experiencing something but you're not there, or the person that you're with is not the right person, but it's like a drug, you need that hit. Yeah, it's like a drug, you need that, hit yeah. So you're going in here and you're playing the part with somebody, yeah, which is a whole other situation, I guess. But I mean, I'm just again. There's a whole other layer and level to that. If it's not happening organically, then you know. What boundaries are you setting for yourself? What guidelines are you setting for yourself? What guidelines are you setting for yourself?
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean, I agree with everything that you're saying.
Speaker 2:I feel like I derailed you because I talked about love and luck and karma.
Speaker 1:I mean it all goes. It does play a part, but I think again, what we're talking about is that I think we continue to come to the same place of. It depends it's the person. What is the person looking for? What are they trying to get out of it?
Speaker 2:Or the people, two people, yeah. Yeah, it's not just about you. It's not just about we're not having, because that's the luck portion of it. It's not just about what you want and what you're going through and where you come from, your values, beliefs, examples of how to live life and whatever that dream picture is that you're trying to get to.
Speaker 2:There's another person that's got to come over here and show up and go, oh yeah, fuck yeah, I'll go ride with you. Like I'll ride or die with you on that. That sounds good. This is true Especially if you're not able to communicate and also know you know what I mean. Like you can't even communicate what you don't. No, yeah, you know what I mean. Like you can't even communicate what you don't know. Yeah, Maybe you don't know what that kind of like intimacy or relationship looks like. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Because you haven't had an example of it in life and you've no examples.
Speaker 2:And then, not only did you not have any examples, you don't even know how to go out and seek it because you've not had any. How do you, how do you, how do you build a house if you've never seen a house before? Right, you know what I mean. Like you, you don't know where to start. You don't even know what you don't know, and I, I mean you, just know that there's something that's missing or that there's something that you crave or something that you want, and so, instead of going out and involving other people in your own bullshit, you know, be clear about what you want, and I think that's where the communication comes is that if you are clear about what you want and what you're looking for, it's easier to find somebody to be intimate with. And that is my point.
Speaker 2:Our first conversation about marriage and family and kids was so I was like, oh shit, this could be the one. I threw you out of the house, you know? And because I knew something was different and everything. Oh my God, we're talking about all the same shit. But now here we are, seven years later, and I mean, our family is just us, whereas we both were talking about kids and wanting all of that and look at how different this picture that we painted for the two of us compared to the life that we have. And I'll take this. I mean, the fantasy is great, but reality is real that's true.
Speaker 1:I mean you, because you, you had set, you set in your mind, you set a frame and a picture of what do you want things to look like and then in reality it's not necessarily like that, or you don't. You get somewhere down the line and you're like that's not actually what I thought.
Speaker 2:What I thought I wanted is not really you go. No, that's not it. I don't want that. That's not it. That doesn't seem like a good life. Please don't sign me up for 20 years with that. No, yeah.
Speaker 1:So earlier you touched on just talking about non-monogamous relationship and open relationships. Okay, and we and we touched on it in a different aspect but I think there is a large percentage of male same-sex couples that are in open, non-monogamous relationships and marriages.
Speaker 2:I mean, well, I don't think it's just men. Oh, and women, Women have, women have just as many rights and desires and to go out here and sell their oats and experience as many things as they can and they should. We will have none of that limiting talk for our lady friends out here.
Speaker 1:I mean, everybody should live their life, let that free flag fly. The question is you know, when we talk about communication, we talk about intimacy. We talk about you know how making that work works. You know, I can only imagine the number of conversations that you have to have in order to make those type of situations work, and I mean we've listened to quite a few books before, different books where they've talked about, you know, um, like the bds and books and, like the, we love a good smoke book.
Speaker 1:Maybe we don't have to come in like, but we have review a smoke book one day. Oh, I love it. Um, but you know, it's clear that there does have to be some sort of like understanding and boundaries, ground rules and communication in order to make those type of things a success. Um, because that's a lot.
Speaker 2:I always I just think it's a lot of energy when you're in a new situation or in a new, you know, realm of living. You also have to be open to change and open to oh, hold on, wait. We set this as like framework of we kind of way and all of a sudden I'm uncomfortable. Instead of just being like no, no, no, I don't like this, I would say for us it would be like okay, hold on, let's have a conversation about that. What about it? What made you uncomfortable? Do you not like me kissing other people? Do you not like me kissing somebody, other people? Do you not like me kissing somebody, this person in particular, or you know I?
Speaker 2:You have to be open, that like, even though this is the framework and this is the things have to flex and be able to change. You know what I mean. It's it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's not a steel bridge. You know. It's got to be like more like the. You know it weighs a little bit like the cable bridge. You know what I mean. You have to be able to flex and move, I think, if you want to weather the storm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you want to continue to try and figure out and make it work, then you say what you need essentially, right, like you have to be honest about what you need essentially right, like you have to be honest about what you need.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm, yes, but I mean, I think it's also about being prepared that like, like this is the framework and this is the plan and these are the rules, but sometimes there has to be deviations or exceptions and that like what a rule applied for 10 years of our life. On this particular day, there could be a conversation or something changes or needs to change, or to have a conversation about adjustments, and I think flexibility is, if you're going to be in a relationship like that or any relationship, I think you need to be flexible as well so that you can get continued intimacy yeah, sexually and emotionally, and all the yeah, all the all the ways.
Speaker 1:Um, so it said that the diversity of intimacy in the LGBTQ plus uh, you don't have to sit back, oh.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Plus, couples show there's uh's. No one size fits all model and I think that's clear. So for some, intimacy means exclusive emotional and sexual bounds. For others, it means emotional monogamy with sexual openness. The common thread is that intimacy thrives when couples communicate openly, which we've said I mean, I don't even know how many times we've talked about communication and setting boundaries and the in honor that what works for them will work for them, you know, and also saying that the people's, the persons involved, as long as you, if it works for you, then it works for you. Everybody is not the same, which is why I tried to make sure that I was clear. Like, what works for us is not going to always probably work for everybody. You know, we, the two of us, communicate differently and we both have to figure out and navigate how that works.
Speaker 2:So takeaways Do you want to go be, anthony? Sorry, you cannot sit me down here and have me having this conversation and not think that I'm like I mean, no, I well, it's Sunday and we're both um takeaways. Um, I think if you're really interested in intimacy, you should look and analyze at, like, what are, what are the ways that you want that in and where can you fulfill that Like? Know that like to be intimate, to be loved, doesn't always have to be physical or sexual, or you can find that in you know all kinds of relationships can be fulfilling, and I think that that is my of relationships can be fulfilling, and I think that that is my, that would be my big takeaway is to not only think of intimacy being sexually related or physically related. Yep.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. For me, it's what I've been continuing to be. I've been saying trust, transparency, communication is important. When it comes to being intimate with someone, I've always thought that you can do it in many different ways in different situations, especially because me too, I have very intimate relationships with friends of mine. We've talked about a lot of different things, relationships with friends of mine. We've talked about a lot of different things and been able to be very vulnerable with them and been able to be very honest, and it shows up in different ways.
Speaker 2:I think one of the other, I guess, like takeaways that I get is that I don't think we have used the word intimacy without vulnerable being somewhere very close to it. So also to analyze the relationships that you're in, is that like, if you want to be intimate with someone, are you also comfortable being vulnerable with?
Speaker 1:them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then if you're not, what is the driving factor that you want even a relationship with that person? You know what I mean. Like I agree with that. Just like when I heard you say it, I was like hold on, wait.
Speaker 1:Those two words seem to keep popping up together vulnerable, intimate, intimate, vulnerable, yeah and so I think what it boils down to is intimacy is not just about sex.
Speaker 1:No, definitely not it's about many different things, um, and it's about how the people in persons. They choose to have it show up and exist in whatever situation that they're in. Um, and, yeah, I think this was a great conversation. Well, I'm glad that I could help. Yes, so let's take a break and then I will be back to close out the show. Hey y'all, if you like what you heard, make sure you join the conversation. We always say to make sure to like, comment and subscribe, and we definitely want you to do that, but also we would love if you would join in with us. There's a link in the description where you can actually send us messages. You can also make sure to tag us on social media. Put up your favorite clips of the show and then tag us and we will repost them on our stories. That is the best way to get in communication or community with us, and we would love to see y'all interact with the content. Anyway, thank you for following us and thank you for listening, and we'll see you back for the remainder of the show. Bye, all right, and we are back, so I hope y'all enjoyed this week's conversation with me and my hubby. I think it was a great conversation and it was something that I have been wanting to kind of dive into and talk about, and I thought he would be the perfect person to have on to talk about it with, um, especially since we are in a relationship and have lots of intimate moments together, um, so I hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm bringing back our final segment, which is where we usually used to do our closing affirmation or used to pull a tarot for the week. I don't know if I'll still pull tarot cards or not. I do want to keep the affirmations at the end because I just think they're good and I think it's pretty cool and we've been pretty steady with doing them. So, with doing that, I have pulled an affirmation card from, if you remember, my Golden Mantra deck that I've had since we've been doing the show, which I want to get an updated deck. Golden Mantra actually has a new deck that they had come out, but I want to see, like, what other affirmation decks they have out there, or like if I can get one that has more kind of that affirmation and tarot crossover. I don't know, I might be making this up, but we'll see what I can find. Anyway, so I chose the card that says I'm worthy of the love I desire from myself and others. Again, it says I'm worthy of the love I desire from myself and others. And so it says my love.
Speaker 1:You were designed for a graceful, unconditional and patient love. Allow yourself to be showered and adored every single day, knowing that love is a source that will never run dry. At times we receive a love so light and full from others that we wonder if we are deserving. If we are deserving, don't question it. Open your arms and allow the love to flow to you. If the love makes you uneasy and pulls you from your heart space and into your mind, know that you deserve better. In this case, ask for it to be given and if it's not, move on.
Speaker 1:And the general prompt is how does love look and feel? What does it taste and smell like? That's a good one, I mean. For me, I think love looks and feels natural to me. Looks and feels natural to me. It has to be natural. You know you can't make up how you feel about someone. And it looks like connected, like you have a natural connection and you have like, like you can see it, like it's oozing off of you, like you're always smiling, you're always feeling good in some way, shape or form, or looking good, like you're glowing. Yeah, that's what I see, and it can show up in many different ways. You can have like a really good, thriving friendship with somebody and you you have that like they're feeding your intellect. They're feeding you in different ways.
Speaker 1:We talked about like soulmates.
Speaker 1:Soulmates doesn't always have to be a partner that you're with or in a relationship with. It could just be a friendship. You know, this card actually plays directly into kind of what we've been talking about this entire episode, which is building love, building connections, being with people that you enjoy and or love or want to be with sexually, or just creating some sort of relationship with, want to be with sexually, or just creating some sort of relationship with and you know you have to decide what that is for you. Or, and then, if it's you and another person involved, you have to decide what that is for the, both of you or the, however many people are involved. However many people are involved, because he's also talked about like non-monogamy and open relationships, and so you know, I think what it boils down to is being communicative, communicative with each other and building on that relationship, and that's it. I hope you've enjoyed another episode of this podcast and I hope you all stay safe. Have a good work week next week and we will see you all on the next one. Bye you.
