Hella Chisme Podcast
Hella Chisme Podcast is a production where Dana and Stefanie sit together with their favorite cocktails and talk about their day-to-day lives. They will cover a wide variety of topics like sex, dating, marriage, pop culture, spirituality and more. The Hella Chisme Podcast will have audio and visual releases every Friday across all major platforms. It's gonna be hella fun.
Hella Chisme Podcast
Cheerful Vibes and Legal Labyrinths
This week on the Hella Chisme Podcast!
Join us, as our conversation takes a serious turn as we unravel the complex case of the Menendez brothers, delving into the emotional struggles they faced and the broader ramifications of revisiting cold cases. With recent allegations adding depth to their narrative, we analyze public perception shifts and the ethical quandaries within therapy practices. The case raises critical questions about trauma accountability and the justice system's capacity for empathy and change, especially when influential public figures and nonprofits advocate for a fresh look at the evidence.
LINK: https://linktr.ee/hellachismepodcast
Hey y'all. I just wanted to let you know that we have a Patreon channel. That's right. If you did not know, we are on Patreon. Our Patreon is $8.99 a month, where you can come and watch all of our visual elements to our podcast show. So all you have to do is click the link in our description box and it will take you right there. It's only $8.99 a month, make sure you go and subscribe bye. You know that saying it's time, I'm right here.
Speaker 3:Let's see. Hit that note. It's time You're close.
Speaker 1:So sorry If you're listening in your car or your headphones. I did not mean to scream in your ear, but we are in the holiday season. Welcome back to another episode of the Hello she's my Podcast. My name is Dana.
Speaker 3:And I'm Stephanie.
Speaker 1:And we are your host. We are. It is full swing into the holiday season. Now. After Halloween, it's always that crunch time to get that last minute Christmas shopping done, and that's what's happening.
Speaker 3:Have you set up your tree yet?
Speaker 1:No, but I did officially. I told Paris that it is official. We can start celebrating Christmas, especially since we are going into a shit season. Um, so christmas is going to be on 1000 for the next four years which is always fun. Love that I set my tree up uh earlier this week oh wait, you already set it up, oh wow I'm gonna add like some ribbon and stuff to it still.
Speaker 3:But, um, my daughter chose like a pink, like a like a hot pink almost. Um, so I did pink, white and silver. So I'm thinking of doing like candy land theme oh, cool, like, okay you know, because it has the pink and the.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds cool. You know the there was a list Of things that came out Of, like San Diego, areas that are going to be decorated For Christmas.
Speaker 3:On.
Speaker 1:TikTok that Paris sent me that, and one of the places are one that I've been wanting to go to for years, which is the little gingerbread house restaurant in Little Italy. Oh, that's cute, and I you know they do it every single year. I've not gone over the last six years that I've been here, and I definitely want to try and make it there this Christmas to go and see it and, uh, experience it that'd be cute.
Speaker 3:I I've never gone to um the Hotel Del. Like how they decorated and I guess they set up an ice rink and and everything um, so that's where I want to try to make it this year and take my kids to see that did you do nice decorations yeah, the one thing that is cool we got a. I have a santa bloat like inflatable uh decoration for outside. We got a garfield one, because my oh cute yeah, junior, it's like a baby garfield with the santa hat.
Speaker 3:It's cute yeah juniors always liked garfield since he was little, because he loves lasagna and my son loves lasagna, so that's random.
Speaker 1:I don't even know that. I realized that Garfield likes lasagna.
Speaker 3:That's his staple, his favorite plate he's always eating lasagna.
Speaker 1:That's so random.
Speaker 3:It's cute.
Speaker 1:It is cute. Now. I'm like I used to watch Garfield, but I guess I didn't watch it enough to realize that. Anyway, what's been going on? How are things going? What's happening? Tell me all the things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, uh, last weekend, cause we haven't recorded right since last weekend. No, so last weekend I went to Temecula. I was out there all weekend. My son had a tournament so it was fun being out there. Out there, um, my son scored like three or four home runs over the weekend.
Speaker 3:So I was, I was very proud of him and, um, yeah, it was. It was a lot going back and forth, um, but it was definitely fun, uh, to to be out there and just get away and a new experience for him, um, and then just transitioning back into work this week, um, and you know, uh, my son was did end up getting sick. Well, he's had a cough, but they finally gave him a medication and then my daughter got like a respiratory virus, like a cold virus, and so just been like handling that. And, lastly, I celebrated my six months yesterday of sobriety.
Speaker 1:You go, girl, look at you you go, then cocoa I mean I wish I wasn't on here drinking, so then that way I could be like yes cheers salute yeah it was cool.
Speaker 3:You know a lot of people. Um, I posted on my personal instagram but a lot of people messaged me and they're like oh, I've been sober. A lot of people have been sober for like two months. So I don't know like if this summer there was like a wave of people that just like and I have been seeing it more and more where people are like more into like the mocktails and like not drinking and stuff. So it was pretty cool to see the response of you know so many people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the community Absolutely. That's amazing. Congratulations and shout out to everybody out there that are taking a road to sobriety and that is not partaking in the drinking of the devil's juice.
Speaker 3:And no judgment if you are like I don't you know, like yeah this is a judgment free.
Speaker 1:Zone you what you gotta do to survive in this world, especially nowadays.
Speaker 3:Okay, yes um how was your weekend? How was your week?
Speaker 1:it was good. You know it was really busy. Um, I got back home last uh, friday, so I'm officially back in Dago and then we had a long weekend, so I was actually off for four days. Right after I got back. I was off Friday, saturday, sunday and Monday for Veterans Day, and it was cool. I don't remember what I did over the weekend. I went to brunch on Sunday of last week, and that was cool. I don't remember what I did over the weekend. I went to brunch on Sunday of last week, and that was nice. Our homegirl's house.
Speaker 3:Oh, is that her house?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's cute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know we got to meet her new little love friend, love interest.
Speaker 3:How did it go? Her new little love friend, love interest.
Speaker 1:And it went well, you know everybody was nice and wholesome and we enjoyed ourselves, I'm pretty sure, pretty sure we were. Me and Paris were in bed by.
Speaker 3:I want to say like 10.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's good. Yeah, woke up Monday morning, went to Oceanside to babysit little Luna. We had a fun day with Luna. That's cute and that was fun. And then we came home and I got up and went to work on Tuesday. So back into the whirlwind of things, yeah. And then here we are, thursday.
Speaker 3:I couldn't tell you, I've done much of anything this week, though, just work.
Speaker 1:Just worked. My room is a mess. I mean my this room, closet office area, is a little bit of a mess. Yeah. I call myself being productive this week because I came home I had unpacked immediately, got my shit together and now here I am. We are having to get this house together because Paris's mom gets here on Tuesday.
Speaker 3:That's cool Is she excited.
Speaker 1:I'm sure she is. She's already got boxes and shit coming here. So I'm sure she's very's already got boxes and shit coming here.
Speaker 3:So I'm sure she's very much so ready to come is she staying like a month again, like she usually does, or she'll be here until the beginning of the year oh, until the beginning of the year, oh, like two months yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that that is two months, huh, yeah, so she'll be here. I think she's our. I booked her ticket to leave like the tuesday, like january 9th or something like that, so yeah, that's cute she's gonna be here and no Thursday January 9th. Yeah, so you know it'll be fun and it'll be a nice, wholesome holiday season yeah. Yeah. If you're wondering what I'm drinking, I'm having a eggnog martini made with lactate eggnog and a little bit of whiskey made by Sir Davis.
Speaker 3:That's for the 30 and up crew that can't be drinking milk and need lactose free.
Speaker 1:Lactose free to everything. It's funny because Paris had said he bought me lactate, uh, eggnog, and at first I was like why did he buy me lactate?
Speaker 3:but now it's all clicking yes now it's all making sense.
Speaker 1:Um the last time I had lactate because actually my mom drinks lactate milk it didn't really do much for my stomach.
Speaker 3:But we'll see Like in a positive way or like it didn't mess it up, is what you mean?
Speaker 1:It didn't, it didn't like, it didn't cause you gas or like anything like that. No, it did give me gas.
Speaker 3:Oh, like there wasn't much difference.
Speaker 1:It wasn't much difference.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Yes. Anyway, a couple of announcements. So we are going. So it is November, so that means we are moving into the holiday season and we are going to be going on our holiday break again annually. So our last episode that will come out will be on December 20th. After that we will be on a break for to you all. We will be on a break for, I think, three weeks and then for us it'll be four, because we record in advance, because that's the type of bitches we is, and we will be going live and doing a live show on December 12th, which is a Thursday. So make sure you all are ready, set jet, go to watch us live on Thursday, december 12th. Lastly, are we doing another holiday giveaway this year?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great question. I didn't think about that.
Speaker 1:So we got to figure that out. If we do do another holiday giveaway, we'll do it on the day of our live event.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we'll be picking. We'll do and pick people live while we're doing the holiday giveaway, I mean, while we're doing the live episode with you all, and we will be in person. So we'll be here in our little recording area, room, area, situation, all set up, and we'll be live and ready to go to entertain you all for two hours or so. Yes, I hope I got them dates right, but I'm pretty sure I did yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you did yeah, from what I could see here okay, yes, so yes, december 12th, meet us on our socials and we'll be live and we'll be in person and we'll have a nice little full on show ready for you all and we're going to talk about all the things and close out the year essentially. Other than that, this episode we are going to be talking about some some things. Going to be talking about some some things. Um, so let us take a quick break and then we will be back to go into what we're talking about this week all right bye.
Speaker 3:hey guys, just wanted to come on here and remind you that we still are on patreon and if you would like to see all of the visual content and for future, present and past episodes, then you would want to subscribe to that. It's about $8 a month, but for real life updates and behind the scenes clips and you know updates, surveys, polls. Make sure you are following us on Instagram, at HelloCheeseMedPod and YouTube HelloCheeseMedPodcast. We do lives and other you know events and stuff like that that you want to definitely be part of, so go ahead and follow us on there and stream us on Apple Podcasts, google Podcasts, spotify or whatever podcast streaming service you prefer. And thank you, guys for tuning in.
Speaker 1:And we are back. So we thought that well, stephanie, this is Stephanie's idea. We thought that well, stephanie, this is Stephanie's idea. Us together, we put together the show. But we thought that it would be cool to kind of talk about some code case files, I guess, like some code cases, cases of people who went to jail for mostly murder cases, where they went to trial, found guilty and then went to jail for long periods of time. And now here we are, years later, where some of these cases are being re-looked at because of specific things related to evidence, where they're going to be letting them out or potentially letting them out.
Speaker 1:We know that some things like this has happened with OJ. Oj Simpson is one of the prime examples, our most recent examples, that we've seen stuff like this happen, but we have quite a few that we're gonna highlight, um, and so I guess, just to kick it off, we will start with one of the most recent, one of the most famous ones, especially right now. Uh, because they have a documentary or documentary, or they have documentaries. There are co-case 2020 Netflix shows about them, speaking about Eric and Lyle Menendez, the Menendez brothers and their case, right? So what do you feel like the just before we dive into the story. What do you think about the case and what was, like, the most captivating parts of the case for you?
Speaker 1:The most captivating part, I would say, is how, like how young they were when it happened I guess, that's the first thing that stands out because I know that um eric was the oldest yes right eric was the oldest. Yes, right, eric was the oldest. Lyle is the youngest.
Speaker 1:Lyle was 18, eric was 21 right if I have that correct, and and with them going through all the things that the story you know, you learn in the show on Netflix, all the different things that they went through in their family and everything you see, or you learn that the reasonings behind what they did ended up doing was because of whatever what the outcome was of like. You know their whole story that they told, but to get into it, do you want to talk about a little bit background of the case? Of whatever, what the outcome was of like? You know their whole story that they told, right, um, but to get into, do you want to talk about a little bit background of the case?
Speaker 3:yeah, so, um, the background of the case was basically the murder it did happen in um in 1989 and they were not convicted until 1996. So those are that's like the main point. So what stood out to me also like once, like in the beginning portion of it, was that they said that police didn't immediately suspect them. Right, um, and I believe it was eric, was saying how he's like if they would have really like interrogated us and like questioned us, he's like we were in a state that was so vulnerable and like grieving and um traumatized, that we would have like broken down and told them uh, he's like we also had gunpowder on our hands and shotgun shells in our car. So if they really would have like honed in on them as suspects, like they could have tested for the gunpowder and arrested them immediately and obviously also with the, the casings in the, you know, in the car.
Speaker 1:So that was surprising to me yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:So I guess one of the things to. So, if you have been living in the rock and don't know so, lyle and Eric Menendez came home one evening where they allegedly have been out early in the day with their parents after going on an alleged fishing trip, where they thought they were going to come home and kill them. Then, later in the afternoon, later that evening, they went out and decided that they were going to come home and they were just going to take things into their own hands and essentially they shot and killed their parents with shotgun rifles, and where they brutally murdered these people, right. So I think that it's interesting, because I did watch the documentary after.
Speaker 1:I watched the show where they were saying some of the things that you were saying, where you know if the police had done this or if they would have done that and looked more deeply, they would have been able to figure these things out. But when we're thinking about um, when we're thinking about extraditing these people and getting them out of prison, I don't understand how that type of information and you saying that helps your case, right? Like especially now after so long um, after 30 years of you all being in prison. Uh, how that is supposed to make people believe that you're no longer going to be a menace to society right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, logically, that's where my mind goes as well. I guess the reasoning behind them, or like the points of them, like getting being able to go on to be resentenced and, you know, possibly being let out on parole and everything is the fact that they didn't really dive into the abuse right and the um, how they had, I think they had when they were younger. They tried to report the abuse and they was just kind of looked over. Because, you know, in those times it was a lot harder for young males, especially women.
Speaker 1:You know girls and boys, you know in that time, but boys it was especially difficult to come forward about those things and being, you know, from a well-off family yeah like they just kind of like, you know, just like shook it off or, just, like you know, grazed over it or push it to the side yeah, I mean it's interesting, some of the people who you know in one of the documentaries you like, the detectives that led the case or some of the attorneys that was on the case you even see that their talk they would say, like you know, I just thought they were psychopaths and they killed their parents and they were these rich little white boys who did whatever they wanted and just thought they were going to get away with murder, whereas it was clearly there's more layers to their story.
Speaker 1:Right, and I was surprised that, because how they found how it ended up getting to the police was because Lyle was in therapy and went and talked to a therapist, essentially because he had been having flashbacks of the night, had been super depressed, couldn't stop crying and was essentially thinking about killing himself. So from there he then started to go see the therapist, which is the same therapist they went to go see when they had gotten busted for breaking into a bunch of homes when they lived in Beverly Hills. So I was. What I find fascinating was that they didn't talk about the or bring up as far as what we could see and know and after all the research. They didn't bring up any of the sexual abuse, at least to the therapist, because I would have thought, you know, it would have been smarter, just thinking in mind of if you wanted to get away with this, to bring up the sexual abuse to the therapist before we started rambling on about how we murdered our parents.
Speaker 3:Right, he was having like really bad nightmares and stuff too, right so what? Oh, go ahead that's true, like I didn't think about that, like how he should have, or they, if they were both in therapy, like yes, brought that up as well, but maybe they were just thinking like brought that up as well, but maybe they were just thinking like maybe they were coming from like a traumatized, like space or like a frantic space. So they were just like you know, like word vomit I guess, or not thinking or not even thinking?
Speaker 1:the therapist would eventually like right, use it against them essentially, because that's essentially what he did, which was use, um, he took the recordings and the information that he was telling him and used it against him uh, as a way to blackmail them essentially right and like to like use them to get to final money out of them.
Speaker 1:So which is crazy, especially for you to be a therapist Like, why are? First of all, there's HIPAA violation, that's number one. So you're not even supposed to be sharing information that your patients are sharing with you, sharing information that your patients are sharing with you. Second of all, you know you're a scammer. Clearly. Third of all, did you not think that your license?
Speaker 3:is going to get revoked, so maybe they're going to pay you this small now, but how long is that really going to last you?
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. What do you feel like, based on, like what we know now about the brother's account of sexual abuse? What do you think like the effect it had on, like the public's perception of the case, based on, like all the stuff that you saw?
Speaker 3:um, I feel like a hundred percent. It just like flips people's not not everybody right, because there's still those people that are like killing is killing and, like you know, there's nothing that can condone that or valid or excuse that. So for me I would say that it definitely, you know, changed a lot of the people's perspective, that it definitely, you know, changed a lot of the people's perspective and the fact that I think somebody else recently came out right Expressing or, you know, making claims that dad allegedly abused him as well and he was like in a boy band, I think that the dad managed or worked with yeah, I agree, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:I think that from what I watched and what I learned with some of the interviews of the members of the jury, some did feel sympathy for them and empathy for them and the story that they were telling. I mean, even in the real videos from the day in court you can see the reactions of everybody in the courtroom and like, obviously the two of them were like bawling and really crying, crying. But I also think that you know it made it worse, right, you know they murdered their parents. Then now they're trying to say that they did this because they were being sexually abused and because they thought they were going to kill them. You know it. Just it makes the story, it muddies the water of what happened in the actual case and how people choose to believe what they want to believe when it comes to big cases like this one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that is true. Um, I guess too. One thing that they said, though, is like how suppose they're claiming that? Um, they still feel some, some like sorry I mean girl, it's fine they still feel like some sort of loyalty because, at the end of the day, like it's their parents. So, um, I guess, like they said, that they didn't feel they didn't necessarily want to talk about like the sexual abuse, like the physical views, the threats, like the sexual views which it I get.
Speaker 3:It is understandable, um right, because it's super uncomfortable to talk about these things and you know, uh, it's not always easy. But I feel like when your life is on the line and you're facing like freaking death in prison, it's like you gotta gotta put it all out there, like anything that can, you know, possibly help you at this point. Like you gotta do it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's, it's interesting to um, I think I always I do talk about like how decisions that people make.
Speaker 1:You know you have to understand the decisions that you're making and even though you know they clearly were in a space to where this was life or death for them, you know you still have to understand that if you, you, you're not going to get away with these type of things, it's not if you're taking someone's life, you know you, there's going to be repercussions regardless. You know, at some point of some way or somehow Right. And so the which leads me into, like you know, this final question about this story is should their potential for parole be influenced by where we are now in society? When we talk about traumas for sexual abuse and just abuse in general? Should that play a factor? Because essentially, the reason why they are now going to move the type of charge or a type of conviction that they have is because now, where we are at in a society of sexual trauma and abuse, where you know you have to take all of that in account when you're determining things like this, like a conviction, a conviction and a murder case and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:I personally, I do think when it's a situation like this, where it's like the child to the parent, um, that should definitely be taken into consideration, because when it's the other way around, like, like, if the parent just ends up, like you know, offing the kid because of the amount of abuse that the child you know went through, like to definitely bring that up. So I mean, and don't, these are things that, like you, like you know, these kids they don't fully, ever, like, recover from, so you know, and it literally changes the wiring in your brain and and I, I personally, I definitely think these are things that should be taken into consideration. Do I feel like it should have been brought up from the get, go a hundred percent, because then now people can try to, you know, play the part where people sometimes make them blame and they'll say, like, well, if it really happened, why didn't you know? So it should be, you know, discussed or brought at least up from the beginning. What do you think?
Speaker 1:I think that, when it comes to parole, I think it's interesting how they frame, how they determine if you are eligible or not. Right, like you know, it's good behavior, will you? Is there a potential that you're going to commit the same type of crime, um, etc. So that part's already interesting to me. Um, do I think the trauma in which they endured should play a factor in determining if they uh should be released or not keep in mind they were seven or what like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it started very young.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I guess. So you know, if they were telling, if the person in the room believes that they were telling the truth I think they were telling the truth, because it just all seemed very too real to me um, but I guess, if the person in the room truly believes their story, then, yes, consider that as a factor. Now, listening to them now, they seem way different than like they're in a way different mindset than they were during the time when this all happened. So, yeah, I think it does not seem. I would hope that they wouldn't get out and then, you know, go in a whole different direction. I mean, they still I think both of them is like one's like 45, the other one's like 30, something 36, 38 or something like that.
Speaker 3:So they both technically have full lives to live still, um, so, yeah, I also thought it was um interesting that they're both in san diego, so they're both um. They were reunited in 2018 at Donovan Prison in San Diego.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that brother still got that wig piece on.
Speaker 3:Dang, that's a lifetime glue, or what.
Speaker 1:He probably takes it off, glue it on. You know, like everybody else, he probably in there watching them wig tutorials on TikTok like everybody else. I mean, it still looked the same in every picture. It's like it got the spiral right in the front. Yeah, and it just sprouts out through the rest of his head.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Two other things that stood out to me were the fact that, um, so during the time, like when they were doing the trial, that, um so during the time, like when they were doing the trial, um, it was saying that a lot of people would claim, like, after speaking to the dad, like they would claim that he was, you know, um, he was very unpopular with almost everyone he met and people found him to be intimidating and, you know, not a good person. So they ended up finding zero character witnesses for the parents behalf. So they like the person representing the parents. Um, so that would be the persecutor right yeah, yeah they.
Speaker 3:They couldn't find anyone to get on the stand and speak good things about the parents I mean that's crazy right that is amazing another um thing that stood out was that this, this, uh monster on netflix. It ended up being the most watched film on netflix worldwide, with 2.22.7 million views in the first week yeah that's insane.
Speaker 3:So people really gravitate toward these, like um these crimes and like these. I feel like also, it was so popular I don't know if you remember, but like it was like in the magazines and it was like on A&E and like Barbara Walters and when it was 2020, like remember all that Like Dateline.
Speaker 1:In the 90s.
Speaker 3:It was all over that.
Speaker 1:I mean when they so. When they were convicted I was six years old or five, yeah, but I learned like much later on, like code, case files or they would talk about it.
Speaker 3:They would talk about it.
Speaker 1:Or they would do make different things to portray the what happened yeah.
Speaker 3:Or rerun file. Like they would. You know how now we watch, like you know, those cold files and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, moving into another case about Glenn Ray Simmons, which is an American man who wrongfully, who was wrongfully convicted in the United States of Oklahoma in 1974, five of the 1974 murder of Carolyn Sue Rogers. So this person, glenn Simmons, like I said, was convicted, but he was wrongfully convicted. So the story goes on December 30th in 1974, two armed men robbed in a liquor store in Edmond, oklahoma, and a 30-year-old, carolyn Sue Rogers, a store clerk, picked up the telephone. A store clerk picked up the telephone. One of the robbers shot her in the head and killed her, and then a customer, 18-year-old Belinda Brown, was also shot in the head but survived. During the investigation of this crime, police were also investigating a series of other similar robberies and a murder.
Speaker 1:On February 4th 1975, the bodies of two men were found in a rural area near Oklahoma City and on February 5th Leonard Patterson was arrested and then confessed to the murders of the two men. Police learned that on January 19th of 1975, leonard Patterson was at a party at a home of Dorothy Norris in Oklahoma City and she was the aunt of the 22-year-old Glenn Simmons who was moved from their home, who moved from their home in Harvey, louisiana, for a job, and then the police began bringing in everyone that they could find that had been at the party, putting them in lineups, including Simmons. Belinda Brown identified Simmons and 21-year-old Don Roberts, who had also been at the party, as the robbers of the liquor store in Edmond. So essentially, this man was identified from a lineup, which is crazy to think about because in 1975, we have to know that there was still a lot of racism in Oklahoma and especially Louisiana, louisiana, and so you know this person identifying this Black man to be the robber of this place.
Speaker 1:I mean two questions I have is who else was in this lineup? And I'm trying to see if I can see what this woman looked like, but they ain't got no pictures of her.
Speaker 3:um, I'm trying to see if I can see what this woman looked like, but they ain't got no pictures of her, so um she was a white woman I figured obviously, um, yeah. So then he testified right that, um, he had been out playing pool and he, um, he testified that and he had four and four witnesses that all uh confirmed his alibi. But he was still um, he was still, he was still convicted on June 5th of 1975 him him and Roberts, and they were both sentenced to death right, yeah so in 1995 the trial persecutor wrote a letter to Simpins saying the only witness who identified him had wanted to think about the identification overnight.
Speaker 3:he wrote that brown had described simmons as more than six feet tall and over 200 pounds, a physical description greatly different from mr simmons stature at the time. The jury on that day at that time found him guilty. However, it was one of the few cases, um, they have been involved in that the verdict a week later could easily have been different. Um so, and then you know, he would bid to be released on parole, but he kept being denied. So he filed a federal petition For a writ of Habeas Habeas corpus In 1997. But it was also denied. So pause, first of all his. So this is what I believe the woman looked like. I was going to pull up a picture for you. Did you want to see it or no?
Speaker 3:yes, I do let me um, it's crazy to think that they still do stuff like that what lineups?
Speaker 1:or just like uh, uh, stuff like that, what?
Speaker 3:lineups or just like Okay, it's a wrong picture, so disregard that, I don't. I don't want to like show it and then you know it's like not 100% accurate. Yeah, lineups, I do feel that. Lineups are not do feel that lineups are not a reliable source. All the time I get how?
Speaker 1:in some situations it could be helpful, but I don't always feel like it is the best approach. What do you think I mean? I lineups. I agree, like you know what. What exactly um?
Speaker 3:I. I need to let my dog out.
Speaker 1:No, you're fine. I don't know the benefits of a line. I'm sorry. Okay, wait, let's rewind At the time. I'm sure the benefits of a lineup was for sure, the fact that you know they needed to identify the person that committed the crime. Okay, so fine, great Understood. Yeah. But at that time in particular, doing a lineup, you had to know that if it's some white woman looking for robbers and they're all supposed to be black that this bitch was gonna pick whoever the fuck she wanted to pick.
Speaker 3:That's what I was gonna say they probably put a bunch of random black guys in them you have exactly like, especially if they're saying that you know he was completely different than what the physical description given was absolutely and also um, like the person that identified them, wanted to think overnight so what? Does that mean so? You're obviously not a hundred percent sure, and you know, like you said, during this time a lot of things were still extremely segregated, especially in freaking louisiana I mean especially in louisiana.
Speaker 1:I mean, but both louisiana, oklahoma and oklahoma, yeah, I mean, that was not too long after the huge, the huge Black Wall Street massacre in Oklahoma. Like you know, I, this bitch, was going to say anybody Right, any nigga. She saw she was going to choose. So so, wrapping up, you know what? So we said that he, after being extra, extra um, extradited, um, I'm sorry exonerated and released from prison in 2023, at the age of 70, um, after having being in prison for 48 years for murder, for the murder of Caroline Sue Rogers, his imprisonment after wrongful conviction is believed to be the longest in American history. Yes, that would definitely be the longest. So I just, you know, I think, when you think about other cases, like we were just talking about, the Menendez brothers, who actually did murder their victims or their parents and who you know have only spent 30 years, where this man spent 48 years behind bars after doing but and didn't do anything, you know your mind quickly wonders um make a decision on, you know, this person's case.
Speaker 3:This person clearly did not do this right, it says so just to kind of seal it up and just so people are aware of, like, how he was found innocent. So it says in january of 2023, simmons attorneys um joseph norwood and john coyle filed an amended application for post-conviction relief that cited the failure of the prosecution to disclose to the to disclose a police report which said that brown had initial initially identified other two men and noted that, in fact, brown had identified four other individuals during the eight lineup procedures wow so that's four to six people that she said right, like, did it?
Speaker 3:um? It also noted that, um, in addition to the four witnesses who testified at the trial that Simmons was in Harvey, uh, there were two other witness present who were to testify similarly but they did not after Simmons' defense lawyer denied their testimony as cumulative. So two people testified out of four that were available to testify and willing, and the petition included affidavits from five more people who said that they saw Simmons In Harvey at the time of the crime. So he was in a totally Different state and city. Wow.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, he just happened to go to this party.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, and that's just what I and that's that just goes exactly to what I just said, like you know. And then also to think, like you know, wrong place, wrong time.
Speaker 3:That's what I was thinking too.
Speaker 1:The number of people that has happened to. But it sucks right. You know you go to this party thinking you're just gonna have yourself a good time. Next thing you know you're in prison for 70 uh, for or 48 years.
Speaker 3:that's wild and he was 70 years old when he was released, so that means he was.
Speaker 1:He was 22 when he went in when he went in, so he spent all his life his whole life.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's sad that's insane yeah, imagine getting your hope being robbed of all your life yeah, so there's like a statistic too that says that between 46% of people incarcerated in US prisons are actually innocent. So that means one out of 20 criminal cases result in a wrongful conviction.
Speaker 1:And California is huge and our prisons are freaking stacked you act you know overpopulated, so imagine how many people that's yeah, yeah, I mean, but also, you know, just versus the people that actually have done something right, like, imagine that that's crazy. Um, well, we still have a few more stories, uh, but we're gonna take a break and then we are gonna come back and, uh, get into the rest of what we have bye and we are back um.
Speaker 1:So the next story is about Stephen Avery. Stephen Avery was wrongfully convicted of sexual assault and attempted murder and ended up spending 18 years in prison before DNA evidence led to his release. Do you want to give the tea on Steven?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it says. He is an American convicted murderer from Manitowoc County, wisconsinisconsin, and he had previously been wrongfully convicted, in 1985, of sexual assault and attempted murder. After serving 18 years of a 32-year sentence, six of those years being concurrent with the kidnapping sentence, avery was exonerated by DNA testing and released in 2003, only to be charged with another murder case two years later.
Speaker 1:Not you laughing.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. So Avery's 2003 exoneration prompted widespread discussion of Wisconsin's criminal justice system. The criminal justice reform bill enacted into law in 2005 implemented reforms aimed at preventing future wrongful conventions. Following his release, avery filed a $36 million lawsuit against Manitowoc County, its former sheriff and its former district attorney for wrongful conviction and imprisonment. Former district attorney for wrongful conviction and imprisonment. In November 2005, with his civil suit still pending, he was arrested for the murder of Wisconsin photographer Teresa Hoback, and in 2007 was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, which was upheld by higher courts.
Speaker 1:So he got wrongfully convicted, then went to back for murder again. I mean I just don't understand. Is it the wrong place, wrong time? But it seems like he actually, he actually did the murder yeah, because they turned they um, they took his dna.
Speaker 3:So it says avery's 2007 murder trial. Um and its associated issues are the focus of the 2015 original documentary series making a murderer I need to see that which also yeah, definitely. Which also covered the arrest and 2007 conviction of his nephew. So the family just be out here, fucking shut up killing motherfucking brandon dassey in august um in August.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:My eyes are low, are they?
Speaker 1:I look high, don't. I Is the egg nogging, it eggnogged. The hell out of me, honey. That's crazy. So then I feel like did you know anything about his story before we looked him up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because now that when I seen his picture, I had seen him and I had heard of it, because I was like, like I don't want to say what I really said, but fucking, I want to say it, um what did you say? Wisconsin just be breeding these like exactly, exactly it's like it's uh, what was the one?
Speaker 1:ted bundy uh-huh, all of the weird the same places where the aliens be popping up, they be brewing these weird ass, crazy, psychopathic people no shade though, because, like I have family there and you know yes yes, um but, I, have.
Speaker 1:So I think I brought this up when we were talking about I don't remember what we were talking about Anyway. So media I want to talk about media because obviously when things like this happen, in cases like this come up, there's a huge media presence. You know they cover a lot of these stories. Do you feel like the exposure of these people to media when things like this happens has an effect on, like, the public's opinion and how the jury makes decisions based on if these people are guilty or not?
Speaker 1:realistically yes I okay, see, I agree, I agree too technically, I know the jury is not supposed to but we live in a society where there's bias.
Speaker 3:Dude, I can go anywhere and someone's going to tell me something about social media. I'm going to see it. I'm going to see it somewhere. I'm going to hear it somewhere. There's no way unless I lock myself like in a freaking room or something that I'm not gonna like hear it, or or see it see something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:There's no way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I, I agree with you, I, I, you know. We see it on movies all the time where a um, where a Jew or a juror will lie and say you know they have no biases, or they will lie to try and get off of the jury duty. Right, I believe that even though you know they may put themselves in a space to where you know they're not supposed to have biases against certain specific things, they don't have a specific background. You know, I think that when you talk about at that time, I think all that stuff played a factor in the decisions that they were making and I think still to this day, highly publicized trials or murders still play a factor in how people decide on decisions on if people are guilty or not.
Speaker 3:I agree, okay, just to piggyback legal lawyer, you know, degree and stuff like that. She now, well, the last couple of years has, I feel like she picks like one person a year or something like that, where she is like she brings A lot of heavy presence and like media presence and shed spotlight On certain cases To advocate For their cases To be re-evaluated. And A few times they have been and they have had positive outcomes. I forget the one with that girl, the lady. I don't know if you saw it, but it was like she was. I think she was African-American and she was like she was like her first one, wasn't it?
Speaker 3:she was like her first one, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like the first one that really brought a lot of attention and the the woman really like turned her life like around, but I guess, like the pimp had abused her right for like years and like raped her and done all kinds of stuff to her so eventually she like offed him to try, you know, and it's oh, yes, yes, right and then, now she's like married and has I don't remember her name, but yeah, anyways, um, she's done this a couple times now.
Speaker 3:Do you feel like like that is like a positive thing, or like do you feel like how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1:you about to make me have to uh say something positive about these girls, and I guess let me start I don't just hurt I don't think anything negative about any of them, honestly, but um, I do. I believe, knowing cause she's a Libra, and knowing our fellow Libras, if they're passionate about something and they truly want to, to be, to have a movement, then they'll dedicate themselves to doing it. So I do think it's something positive. Right, I do yes, yeah to doing it. So I do think it's something positive.
Speaker 3:Right I do?
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, I, I believe it's something positive uh and she doesn't talk about it a lot, which makes me feel like that she doesn't want it to be. She wants it to be separate from what she does. So that also makes me feel like it's something positive, like it's not highly publicized.
Speaker 3:I guess let's just say yeah, yeah, I definitely don't know, like, like, what her intention is with doing that, um, but I mean, either way, it's helping these people in a positive way, yeah, and it's bringing to light how the flaws in our justice system and where there's room for improvement, and also recognizing how different our system is now. Obviously, a lot of some things are still the same, right, but a lot of things have also changed. We have access to more like technology and cameras everywhere, so I think it kind of sheds light on those things.
Speaker 1:Agreed. The last case is the Central Park Five, which is unknown as the Exonerated Five, which is now known as the Exonerated Five, which is now known as the Exonerated Five. So the background for this case is it outlines a 1989 assault and rape case that led to wrongful conviction of five Black and Latino teens who spent six and 13 years in prison. Their exoneration discussed, their exoneration in 2002 after the actual perpetrator confessed and DNA evidence confirmed his guilt. So the story goes. You all know what's in who. I think we all know Central Park in New York City.
Speaker 1:So the Central Park jogger case is what they were calling. It was a criminal case concerning the assault and rape of Teresa Melly, a woman who was running in Central Park, manhattan on April 19th 1989, was peaking in Central Park at this time was peaking in the early 80s and the early 90s as the crack epidemic surged. So on the night Mellie was attacked, dozens of teenagers had entered the park and there were reports of muggings and physical assaults, which still to this day, there's a lot of muggings and physical assaults that happen in Central Park. I think that's how Central Park has gotten its reputation, sadly, although you know they do have people that patrol Central Park throughout the night and they close it down, but you know, still to this day people find their way into the park in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Six teenagers were indicated in relations to the melee assault. Charges against one, Stephen Lopez, was dropped after Lopez pledged guilty to a different assault. The remaining five, which was Antoine Marquet, Kevin Richardson, Yusuf Salam, Randy Santana and Corey Wise, known as the Central Park Five, were convicted of the charge offenses and serve sentences ranging from seven to 13 years. So I think it's. It's interesting, right like Central Park is a huge park. Have you ever been in New York?
Speaker 3:I have not.
Speaker 1:So Central Park ranges from Manhattan, downtown and parts to all the way up to Manhattan and almost parts to, I believe, brooklyn, but I could be completely wrong. But it's huge. Essentially it's a huge park smack dab in the middle of New York City, manhattan, and we're talking about the 1980s, the 80s and the 90s. Yes, and the crack academic was just clearly starting AIDS was a huge thing at the time as well for the gay community, black Walsh and Wall, not Black Wall Street. I'm sorry the Harvey Milk movement was I'm sorry I'm saying the wrong thing Not Harvey Milk, stonewall.
Speaker 3:Oh Stonewall, oh Stonewall, yes the wrong homosexual movement.
Speaker 1:Stonewall was a huge thing at the time, so you know, it's just a lot of things going on.
Speaker 3:Sorry, wesley, just broke into just a lot going on, right, so it says that there was at the time there was a concern about crime in general in the city, which was suffering high rates of assaults, rapes, homicides these are taught.
Speaker 1:These attacks provoked great outrage yeah, yeah, that doesn't surprise me. So I think my thing is, my point is in saying you know, obviously New York City is a smelting pot of different races case and how it reshaped the conversations around juvenile justice and racial bias, like you know, especially thinking about, I feel like at one point juvenile cases were a big thing, um, especially for black and brown, uh, kids. Um, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3:um, yeah, even like with the gypsy case, I feel like there was just so many cases like now that I think about it. There was a lot of teenage cases growing up, huh, um, like, uh, police and investigators from what I see is that they approach things um more cautiously, because it said to like with this case, like because they were 16 and under, like their names were not even supposed to be released and they were like releasing their names and everything. And I feel like nowadays, like they're more cautious with these things and like, um, I don't know if it's like the parents putting the kids on game too, of like you don't say shit and like educating your kids Like don't you ever say anything. If you call me, you don't say anything on the phone, like you just say I need my, my parent here, or whatever. It is Right, um, but I I just think that they approach it more cautiously and I feel like the system is a little more like they look deeper into these things when it's, you know, like a teenager and stuff.
Speaker 1:But you know, I do believe it's still flawed, especially like with, you know, black, latino teenagers in certain areas as well I think also, you know, the thing to think about is that, um, you know the amount of cruising that was happening at central park at that time. Yeah, you know, like, what were these teenage kids really doing in the park at that time? Yeah, you know, like what were these teenage kids really doing in the park at that hour? And it just wasn't safe. It wasn't safe. Why weren't these parents, you know, taking care of their kids? But you know understanding that it was a drug epidemic. They probably were strung out on drugs and they didn't really have a family.
Speaker 3:Also were I don't know about you, but like nowadays, like kids they're home, gaming, like they're doing, you know, like stuff like that. Uh, social media, like videos, whatever right, and back then, like we were out well, I was out, like riding my bike, like with my cousins, my, you know, my friends on the block or you know whatever, like just doing random shit, playing, like you know and just being out in the acting up as being kids, essentially being kids.
Speaker 3:So it was different back then to like the rules you know and like what do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I just, you know, for me it's at the, it's just um, it sucks that. You know, for me it's just that at that age and at that time kids weren't being kids and they were just doing whatever I guess they had to do to survive, because who knows what these kids' lives were like? Right, I guess, just to close it out, you know when you think of justice and you know what it means in these cases and wrongful imprisonment that has already happened what do you think, like, what do you think that brings people to, I guess, the justice system to rethink kind of these trials like, who do you think is the ones that's doing the work? Like we? I know we talked about kim, but who?
Speaker 1:else do we think other people doing the work to figure shit like this out right.
Speaker 3:So there are a lot of non-profits now that help. Uh, I was watching like a documentary once about one nonprofit there's, like the innocence project, the center for integrity and forensic sciences take action. Like there's just so many. I feel like there's a lot more resources now and that's what I think it is.
Speaker 3:Like these non-profits and like people that are either have obtained their degree as a lawyer or you know that maybe just have a passion for this on the side or take this on you know as they're. You know how some people like criminal cases, some people like family cases, like maybe they take on these types of cases as like their specialty, or that's what I think it is, because, honestly, like you can write a letter all day, all day, all day, but like how many letters do they get from people prisoners saying they're innocent, know? And like how many do they really read and like consider, right. So I think when an organization steps in or an attorney actually steps in and advocates, like it kind of like OK, well, let me at least read this and like see what this is about, or at least read this and like see what this is about, or and then just people like you said, like people on social media, like shedding light on it and like standing up, and just that's what I think it just comes down to. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you think? I, I, I think that I I know for a fact that there are people who specialize in this work. Right, like you said, there are nonprofits, there are people who do it as a specialty, being like really diligent about what it is that you're finding and and really honing in on what was missed in these cases. Right, cause the other part is in the eighties and nineties and the seventies and the sixties. They didn't have all the shit, that technology that we have now, you know. So now we have all these things and being able to go back and look at some of these cases is a blessing and it sucks that it's taken this long. But also, you know, thankfully we've gotten here, so at least some of these people can have some sort of life. But that also makes me think.
Speaker 1:You know the trust in the legal system, right, you know, do people? Things like this is what affects people's trust in the legal system, which makes people question like did you really look? Did you really do your jobs? I mean, it comes up in cases all the time. We've talked about, you know, the case with the boyfriend and the girlfriend where they were kidnapped out of their homes in Vallejo, we've talked about it when we talk about the Menendez case, when we talk about, you know, oj Simpson, and all of these cases happened during a time where the technology and the things, the information, wasn't always there, so they really went based on some of the things that they found right.
Speaker 3:Um so, yeah any final thoughts no, I just think, know. No, it's just interesting Like watch, watch these documentaries, you know, like it's interesting to see like how far, how different things are and like how this all happens, and like I don't know, just be, I guess, being mindful of like the your surroundings and like trying not to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, you know 100%, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, let's take a break and then we'll come back and wrap this up, okay, all right, bye, hey y'all. If you like what you heard, make sure you join the conversation. All right, bye, messages. You can also make sure to tag us on social media. Put up your favorite clips of the show and then tag us and we will repost them on our stories. That is the best way to get in communication or community with us, and we would love to see y'all interact with the content. Anyway, thank you for following us and thank you for listening, and we'll see you back for the remainder of the show.
Speaker 3:Bye, all right, queen, we're back because in the club, we all fam tell me why amaya says that we go around the house and I'm like in the club and then she goes. We all fam, we all fam. That's funny.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I pulled an affirmation and it says I care for myself. I give myself what I need when I need it. It says my love. You are the guardian of your mind, body and soul. You may be questioning whether you have what it takes to nurture yourself and provide what is needed for your lifetime, or your time. Attention and energy may be focused on things other than yourself. If the latter, the universe, asks you to take a step back and pour into yourself, affirming that you've got you and will always have you, and the prompt is what do I need right now and how can I provide this medicine? So, are you taking care of yourself? Are you doing what you?
Speaker 3:need to do to take care of yourself. I feel like this week I've been finally like I was finally getting back. I feel like I got set back now with, like my kids sick and everything but, um, this week, like well, and last week I've been going back to the gym and then, like this week, I've been doing my audio books again, like I started yoga, like at home, like my yoga videos, like working on flexibility and all that. So I feel like I have that's good.
Speaker 1:Yes, I actually went to a doctor's appointment today. Um, so that's my first one this year, or, yes, this year, besides dennis. Um, yeah, because you know, I just I don't have it. I don't usually really need to go to the doctor.
Speaker 3:But I went. You went in a shitload this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went mostly because of my back pain and was confirmed that I have a pinched sciatic nerve in my bottom of my lower back that shoots down my leg and your butt, yes, my glutes and my hammies. So, um, and then I did some back x-rays. So you know, the doctor was like of course you need to look into losing some weight and getting on a more strict diet and, um, you know, make sure your posture is right and do your stretching and if you're in pain, use some of the lidocaine patches and all the things. So I think what my point in saying is I've been working on getting back into taking care of myself. You know, I think I talk a lot about trying to make sure I get back to continue on a route of health. So, whether that's walking, I've been talking about only taking the stairs at work lately, especially since the other day people got stuck in our elevator. So I am working on it. Yeah, give yourself grace, I am working on it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, give yourself grace. And as long as you know, you know what you have to do. I was going to say you know what helped. I had a sciatic pain when I was pregnant and I got my. I went to the chiropractor and got my spine aligned after, yeah, and it took away the pain.
Speaker 1:I might. I've been thinking about going to go do that um, so I might look into see if I can get an appointment with a chiropractor, um, because I do feel like I need an alignment. I can feel it. Yeah, and he said my spine is, uh, curved in a little bit more than it's supposed to be, which you know, hopefully a computer alignment will help with that.
Speaker 1:So we'll see. Well, we hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Like we said, Thursday, December 12th, we will be going live in person Shortly thereafter. We will be on our holiday break. We will absolutely miss you, but we want to just let you know so you can get prepared to not hear from us for a couple of weeks, because I'm going to speak for me. I'm tired.
Speaker 1:I'm tired too Very tired, so we look forward to hanging out with y'all over the next couple of weeks. Until it's time for that, we have a robust plan over the next couple of weeks, so we will check in with y'all next week. Until then, make sure you like, comment and subscribe and follow us on all of our platforms. Um and stephanie, do you want to tell them where they need to follow us?
Speaker 3:yeah, make sure you guys are following, uh, us on instagram at hella cheese, my pod, and that you are subscribed to our youtube channel, because those are the two platforms where we do go live, and YouTube, obviously, hello Cheese Bread podcast. Make sure you're liking and subscribing. And if you just want to stream us from your car while you're getting ready or in the morning, you can stream us on Apple podcast, google podcast, we are on iHeartRadio and just you know see if we're on your preferred podcast streaming app or you know platform and we are grateful for your support yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening and following us and we will see you all next week. Bye.
